Enjoyed the vid so far, JJ fold at 16:52 seems sort of tight although understandable, but is there more merit to this than cold calling? This is a spot I probably VPIP and leak money with JJ tbh.
@39:20 w Q8o. Phil's commentary says this hand is probably not strong enough to raise, QJo might be...makes me think we should construct XR range linearly. so...
When: 1) we are the oop caller in a srp AND 2) we flop TP w/ various medium to weak kickers AND 3) we face what we presume to be full range cbet of 20%-33%
-the above situation is very commonly occurring-
Question: What is the best method or software to use to try to decide which TP hands to XR and which to XC ?
I know we can use solvers and force an IP range small cbet, but then the resulting OOP strategy is of course greatly influenced by IP clairvoyance, whereas if we were to construct w/ flopzilla would we just do this linearly? I guess I'm confused if we should be looking to XR linearly here with our strongest TPs or if there are reasons to do something else.
Ill try and chip in with my opinion here, even though I wasnt in the vid (not sure how replies should be structured in these group videos, could be worth discussing between multiple coaches anyway if people have different opinions).
I think the important thing to realise when thinking about this spot is that not all paired boards are equal and to understand the dynamics of each and how it influences the xr frequency/range of the OOP player.
A board like KKQtt is very different from say 665tt, partly because IP doesnt have a 'nut advantage' on 665tt but also because of the changeability of the lower board texture. Protection on 665tt is far more important than on KKQ (2nd pair on flop is still 2nd pair often by the river) and 2nd pair type hand classes will xr on this board much more frequently for this reason.
So if we consider that Qx combos have little incentive to xr on KKQtt relative to 5x combos on 665tt then we should consider other factors that lead to increases in xr frequency, such as equity. It seems a fair assumption that Qx + backdoor will be xr more frequently than Qx + no backdoor, and to some extent Qx with higher kicker can have multiple backdoors as well as getting more 'thin value'. This seems to support the idea of a more linear xr strategy with Qx combos - and it came about by our logical deductions applying common heuristics. Fwiw I think QXdd will be much higher xr frequency relatively speaking than QXcx because of increased implied odds and unblocking IP FDs - overall though I would say that Qx just doesnt care much for the xr line here
Now to answer your question specifically, I personally dont have a tonne of experience with flopzilla but equally think Piosolver/Simple postflop are excellent ways to analyse Qx xr strategy on this flop. I would say that its not mandatory to lock rangebet to analyse this spot or the xr strategy. I dont understand your issue with IP having clairvoyance over OOPs strategy within solvers - if anything this should give us a more accurate representation of our favoured xr candidates because IP knows our strategy and we still choose to xr in that manner. If you wished to consider the xr from an exploitative standpoint then try to assess within the solver where villain is most likely to make mistakes downstream - be that vs the xr, under/overbluffing the turn barrel line, under/overfolding after skipping turn cbet etc. This should give us an idea about where we might want to deviate with Qx.
Hey, great job guys. Nicely done. Well played. But did any of you even consider stopping for just one single second to imagine what it would be like if we were to suddenly realize that we were in something like a bad Twilight Zone episode, and that your cute little dream table was actually. . . a terrible nightmare?
—Eerie music begins playing softly in the background—
I sure did, and it's not pretty at all. And none of you look very amused about it either. . . and now I'm just really sorry that I even dreamt this whole crazy thing up to begin with. . .
=P
25minute - Daniel Dvoress talks about calling Ace vs turn bet, that seems bit loose on mono board 3 way to me. Bad equity vs bluffs and crushed vs value.
Loading 15 Comments...
Enjoyed the vid so far, JJ fold at 16:52 seems sort of tight although understandable, but is there more merit to this than cold calling? This is a spot I probably VPIP and leak money with JJ tbh.
Yeah that JJ fold is way too tight. It’s closer to a 4b than it is a fold. 70 is way too peelable here IP.
Love the trolling from Chris :D
@39:20 w Q8o. Phil's commentary says this hand is probably not strong enough to raise, QJo might be...makes me think we should construct XR range linearly. so...
When: 1) we are the oop caller in a srp AND 2) we flop TP w/ various medium to weak kickers AND 3) we face what we presume to be full range cbet of 20%-33%
-the above situation is very commonly occurring-
Question: What is the best method or software to use to try to decide which TP hands to XR and which to XC ?
I know we can use solvers and force an IP range small cbet, but then the resulting OOP strategy is of course greatly influenced by IP clairvoyance, whereas if we were to construct w/ flopzilla would we just do this linearly? I guess I'm confused if we should be looking to XR linearly here with our strongest TPs or if there are reasons to do something else.
Ill try and chip in with my opinion here, even though I wasnt in the vid (not sure how replies should be structured in these group videos, could be worth discussing between multiple coaches anyway if people have different opinions).
I think the important thing to realise when thinking about this spot is that not all paired boards are equal and to understand the dynamics of each and how it influences the xr frequency/range of the OOP player.
A board like KKQtt is very different from say 665tt, partly because IP doesnt have a 'nut advantage' on 665tt but also because of the changeability of the lower board texture. Protection on 665tt is far more important than on KKQ (2nd pair on flop is still 2nd pair often by the river) and 2nd pair type hand classes will xr on this board much more frequently for this reason.
So if we consider that Qx combos have little incentive to xr on KKQtt relative to 5x combos on 665tt then we should consider other factors that lead to increases in xr frequency, such as equity. It seems a fair assumption that Qx + backdoor will be xr more frequently than Qx + no backdoor, and to some extent Qx with higher kicker can have multiple backdoors as well as getting more 'thin value'. This seems to support the idea of a more linear xr strategy with Qx combos - and it came about by our logical deductions applying common heuristics. Fwiw I think QXdd will be much higher xr frequency relatively speaking than QXcx because of increased implied odds and unblocking IP FDs - overall though I would say that Qx just doesnt care much for the xr line here
Now to answer your question specifically, I personally dont have a tonne of experience with flopzilla but equally think Piosolver/Simple postflop are excellent ways to analyse Qx xr strategy on this flop. I would say that its not mandatory to lock rangebet to analyse this spot or the xr strategy. I dont understand your issue with IP having clairvoyance over OOPs strategy within solvers - if anything this should give us a more accurate representation of our favoured xr candidates because IP knows our strategy and we still choose to xr in that manner. If you wished to consider the xr from an exploitative standpoint then try to assess within the solver where villain is most likely to make mistakes downstream - be that vs the xr, under/overbluffing the turn barrel line, under/overfolding after skipping turn cbet etc. This should give us an idea about where we might want to deviate with Qx.
Hope this helps
Well played RIO this is fantastic!
Hey, great job guys. Nicely done. Well played. But did any of you even consider stopping for just one single second to imagine what it would be like if we were to suddenly realize that we were in something like a bad Twilight Zone episode, and that your cute little dream table was actually. . . a terrible nightmare?
—Eerie music begins playing softly in the background—
I sure did, and it's not pretty at all. And none of you look very amused about it either. . . and now I'm just really sorry that I even dreamt this whole crazy thing up to begin with. . .
=P
they play in some kind of garage/warehouse? lol
*First part in nutshell:*

Best one : D
25minute - Daniel Dvoress talks about calling Ace vs turn bet, that seems bit loose on mono board 3 way to me. Bad equity vs bluffs and crushed vs value.
At 17´interesting fold with JJ by Zeros.
Nit fest : ) Kevin folding 55 to a 3 bet. Whats the difference from 66, 77 there if I assume you´re calling to set mine?
26´: Aphoteosis ´´so close to Aces`` LOL : D
Also NICE FOLD with JJ at 30´x Kevin 4 bet. Pro.
TEUNUSS, why are you folding KJo in the cutoff, think its too tight even though the lineup is pretty tough.
Be the first to add a comment
You must upgrade your account to leave a comment.