Sro, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it in any form. I know as a video watcher, I enjoy seeing every hand, every nuance. I thought this was a good HH to show a lot of different stages, aspects, and spots of a tournament - and having a lot on the line down the stretch makes for decent theater as well. I'll see if I can become a bit more concise on some topics, but this will be an honest challenge for me. 

**** I’m not sure exactly how this happened, but in my
ICMizer slides in the video, all of the overcall ranges for players behind me
are way too wide – affecting my correct range, and the calculation as a whole.
A poster, Prisonmike, pointed it out in one hand, and I thought that if
happened in that hand, maybe it happened in others as well, and it turns out
that that is indeed the case for some hands. Below I’ll post screenshots of the
correct calculations, and write-ups for each to explain what’s happening. I  will post each individual HH and payout
information at the end of the post if anyone wants to play with these spots further.

Hey Podskiii,

Damn, watched all of my videos -here's a man with an informed opinion. I do appreciate the feedback, in any form. I'll be more consciously aware of topics I broach. In this series, I was prompted a lot by the hands and spots that came up, but I can choose to skip over more simple or basic spots and look for more compelling concepts to discuss. Honestly, I think a lot of why I bring up standard spots is a learned behavior from discovering over time that a lot of the spots I had considered to be standard and "figured out" in my own mind, I had wrong to a pretty significant degree. Perhaps this makes me a bit paranoid about ever granting a concept exempt status from being closely examined and reconsidered, and ultimately hesitant to give it the standard label. 

This is great feedback though, and I'll keep it in mind not only as I make future videos, but as I think of topics for future videos. I think a different format, more narrowly focused on a topic or small group of topics, will be helpful for my improving in this area. And I'll try to be more concise when appropriate; this is definitely called for. 

Mike, good eye.  I’m not sure exactly how this happened, but in my
ICMizer slides in the video, all of the overcall ranges for players behind me
are way too wide – affecting my correct range, and the calculation as a whole. I thought that if
happened in that hand, maybe it happened in others as well, and it turns out
that that is indeed the case for some hands. Below I’ll post screenshots of the
correct calculations, and write-ups for each to explain what’s happening. I  will post each individual HH and payout
information at the end of the post if anyone wants to play with these further.

7:20   -First
slide in video, T6o: This was correct since it was Bvb and there were no
possible         overcallers behind.

16:20   - Second
slide A8hh, BTN MR/fold vs SB shove. This is correct as well. 

20:20  -
AJo   CO with 17BB facing 17BB UTG shove   http://i.imgur.com/HuKiR61.png

Here ICMizer has UTG shoving 10% of hands – 55+
ATo+ A8s+ and KQs. I think that villain will min raise with AA-QQ, so I took
those out, leaving him with 8.9% of hands. Vs the intial range of top 10% of
hands, we’re only able to call 1.8% of hands – JJ+. Even AKs is a slight losing
call in this spot. After taking out QQ-AA, we’re now able to call twice as many
hands as before: 3.5% , which is TT+ and AKo+. In either scenario, our AJo is a
clear fold. In both scenarios, ICMizer advises that BTN and SB should overcall
.9% of hands (KK+) vs UTG’s shove and my CO call. BB is advised to only overcall
with AA. Widening the calling ranges of players behind (1.8% for BTN and SB,
and 3.0% for BB), doesn’t change the range we should call with, though it does
reduce our overall expectation in the hand slightly.

23:40  
A7o in BB with 16BB vs BTN covering shove.  This is correct, I’m in BB so no overcalling
behind. 

26:00 –A4o BTN shove with 15BB. This is correct.

28:15   - AJo
CO with 18x vs LJ min raise off of a similar stack. http://i.imgur.com/HW88vsT.png

I
gave Sasuke 15% to open, and 6.3% of that as calling when we shove, everyone
else folds, and action is back on him. I manually adjusted all of the
overcalling ranges this time, estimating every players range to my most accurate
assumption of what each of their ranges would look like. The result: We should
shove 3% of hands, JJ+ and AKo plus. AJo is a very comfortable and clear fold. 

33:00  - 55
off of 16BB in the SB vs a 16BB CO minraise. http://i.imgur.com/qXNAdZn.png

In the video, the BB overcall
range was way too wide at 21%. Here I assigned him a more reasonable range of
6.3%. I also assigned the CO basically the loosest range I could imagine; 10%
of hands. Now this range is AQo+ and KK+ (4.2% of hands) that he’s raise
calling, and the rest are hands that he’s raise folding to balance out his
opening range. All of his middle strength hands, hands that he can make a
profit by simply shoving, I confidently assume are going to shove rather than
min raise. In this scenario, which is the best I can imagine for us, and I
think unrealistic because I don’t think this villain is opening many raise/fold
hands here, 55 is still a slight loser. Good fold, Nick. 

39:25 
-  22 CO with 24BB CO vs HJ.  http://i.imgur.com/5wnXY1o.png

I did some tweaking on the ranges from the
video and got different answers – somewhere in the somewhat different
neighborhood.  Again I gave Sasuke a 27%
open range, and a calling range of 8% when I shove over his open. I manually
adjusted all of the possible overcalling ranges, and shove ranges of players
behind were I to fold. Result: 22 is still losing .26% of the prizepool,
though  I can shove TT+ and AKo+. 

AJo @ 20:20 

PokerStars Hand #108603915993: Tournament
#823266169, $500+$30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXXIV (65000/130000) -
2013/12/16 1:11:20 PT [2013/12/16 4:11:20 ET]

Table '823266169 16' 9-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 1: bigoots (1818130 in chips)

Seat 2: PureCash25 (2119050 in chips)

Seat 3: jpsoeira (2464748 in chips)

Seat 4: WTFOMFGOAO (6716619 in chips)

Seat 5: Politonic (1831628 in chips)

Seat 7: koshmaar (1847955 in chips)

Seat 8: Sasuke234 (2416606 in chips)

Seat 9: JBT449 (3325264 in chips)

bigoots: posts the ante 13000

PureCash25: posts the ante 13000

jpsoeira: posts the ante 13000

WTFOMFGOAO: posts the ante 13000

Politonic: posts the ante 13000

koshmaar: posts the ante 13000

Sasuke234: posts the ante 13000

JBT449: posts the ante 13000

WTFOMFGOAO: posts small blind 65000

Politonic: posts big blind 130000

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to PureCash25 [As Jc]

koshmaar: raises 1704955 to 1834955 and is all-in

Sasuke234: folds

JBT449: folds

bigoots: folds

PureCash25: folds

jpsoeira: folds

WTFOMFGOAO: folds

Politonic: folds

Uncalled bet (1704955) returned to koshmaar

koshmaar collected 429000 from pot

koshmaar: doesn't show hand

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot 429000 | Rake 0

Seat 1: bigoots folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 2: PureCash25 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 3: jpsoeira (button) folded before Flop
(didn't bet)

Seat 4: WTFOMFGOAO (small blind) folded before
Flop

Seat 5: Politonic (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 7: koshmaar collected (429000)

Seat 8: Sasuke234 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 9: JBT449 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

AJo @ 28:15

PokerStars Hand #108603981817: Tournament
#823266169, $500+$30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXXIV (65000/130000) -
2013/12/16 1:14:31 PT [2013/12/16 4:14:31 ET]

Table '823266169 16' 9-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 1: bigoots (1532130 in chips)

Seat 2: PureCash25 (2119050 in chips)

Seat 3: jpsoeira (2178748 in chips)

Seat 4: WTFOMFGOAO (8154928 in chips)

Seat 5: Politonic (2091628 in chips)

Seat 7: koshmaar (4046910 in chips)

Seat 8: Sasuke234 (2416606 in chips)

bigoots: posts the ante 13000

PureCash25: posts the ante 13000

jpsoeira: posts the ante 13000

WTFOMFGOAO: posts the ante 13000

Politonic: posts the ante 13000

koshmaar: posts the ante 13000

Sasuke234: posts the ante 13000

WTFOMFGOAO: posts small blind 65000

Politonic: posts big blind 130000

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to PureCash25 [Jd As]

koshmaar: folds

Sasuke234: raises 130000 to 260000

bigoots: folds

PureCash25: folds

jpsoeira: folds

WTFOMFGOAO: folds

Politonic: folds

Uncalled bet (130000) returned to Sasuke234

Sasuke234 collected 416000 from pot

Sasuke234: doesn't show hand

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot 416000 | Rake 0

Seat 1: bigoots folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 2: PureCash25 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 3: jpsoeira (button) folded before Flop
(didn't bet)

Seat 4: WTFOMFGOAO (small blind) folded before
Flop

Seat 5: Politonic (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 7: koshmaar folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 8: Sasuke234 collected (416000)

55 @ 33:00

PokerStars Hand #108604024314: Tournament
#823266169, $500+$30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXXIV (65000/130000) -
2013/12/16 1:16:33 PT [2013/12/16 4:16:33 ET]

Table '823266169 16' 9-max Seat #8 is the button

Seat 2: PureCash25 (1937050 in chips)

Seat 3: jpsoeira (3905878 in chips)

Seat 4: WTFOMFGOAO (7777928 in chips)

Seat 5: Politonic (3936256 in chips)

Seat 7: koshmaar (1994282 in chips)

Seat 8: Sasuke234 (2988606 in chips)

PureCash25: posts the ante 13000

jpsoeira: posts the ante 13000

WTFOMFGOAO: posts the ante 13000

Politonic: posts the ante 13000

koshmaar: posts the ante 13000

Sasuke234: posts the ante 13000

PureCash25: posts small blind 65000

jpsoeira: posts big blind 130000

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to PureCash25 [5d 5s]

WTFOMFGOAO: folds

Politonic: folds

koshmaar: raises 136500 to 266500

Sasuke234: folds

PureCash25: folds

jpsoeira: calls 136500

*** FLOP *** [4h Td 8h]

jpsoeira: checks

koshmaar: checks

*** TURN *** [4h Td 8h] [3h]

jpsoeira: bets 390000

koshmaar: calls 390000

*** RIVER *** [4h Td 8h 3h] [Jd]

jpsoeira: bets 390000

koshmaar: folds

Uncalled bet (390000) returned to jpsoeira

jpsoeira collected 1456000 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot 1456000 | Rake 0

Board [4h Td 8h 3h Jd]

Seat 2: PureCash25 (small blind) folded before
Flop

Seat 3: jpsoeira (big blind) collected (1456000)

Seat 4: WTFOMFGOAO folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 5: Politonic folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 7: koshmaar folded on the River

Seat 8: Sasuke234 (button) folded before Flop
(didn't bet)

22 @ 39:25

PokerStars Hand #108604189729: Tournament
#823266169, $500+$30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXXIV (65000/130000) -
2013/12/16 1:24:23 PT [2013/12/16 4:24:23 ET]

Table '823266169 16' 9-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 2: PureCash25 (3120100 in chips)

Seat 3: jpsoeira (3404110 in chips)

Seat 4: WTFOMFGOAO (8349928 in chips)

Seat 5: Politonic (3910256 in chips)

Seat 8: Sasuke234 (3755606 in chips)

PureCash25: posts the ante 13000

jpsoeira: posts the ante 13000

WTFOMFGOAO: posts the ante 13000

Politonic: posts the ante 13000

Sasuke234: posts the ante 13000

WTFOMFGOAO: posts small blind 65000

Politonic: posts big blind 130000

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to PureCash25 [2s 2h]

Sasuke234: raises 130000 to 260000

PureCash25: raises 2847100 to 3107100 and is
all-in

jpsoeira: folds

WTFOMFGOAO: folds

Politonic: folds

Sasuke234: folds

Uncalled bet (2847100) returned to PureCash25

PureCash25 collected 780000 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot 780000 | Rake 0

Seat 2: PureCash25 collected (780000)

Seat 3: jpsoeira (button) folded before Flop
(didn't bet)

Seat 4: WTFOMFGOAO (small blind) folded before
Flop

Seat 5: Politonic (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 8: Sasuke234 folded before Flop

Payouts

Hey David,

I appreciate your feedback. I'm happy that you find my videos, and the way I make them, to be a good fit for you. This is what I like as well when I watch videos. However, I do think there is some room for me to shorten some of the time I spend on some subjects in the video. Some people are asking that from me as well, and I think it's a very fair request. I am going to keep this in mind in future videos. Please let me know if I ever go too far with this change, and I end up not giving enough details on a certain spot. Thanks! GL. 

Hey John,

Good to see you again. I'm glad you posted your thoughts here, but I do think they have a point! I do tend to get carried away in explain some spots that could be stated much more concisely, without a ton of loss in content. I'm torn personally, cuz I catch myself rambling about relatively trivial minutiae at times, yet I love trying to see every possible aspect of a spot. I'll find a happy medium between being concise, and satisfying my own desire to get in an almost needlessly deep level of detail in a given hand or spot. 

Hey Nick,

i think Ben put it well below but i love seeing critical analysis from pros. If you have something to say i want to hear it because you're better than me and i am here to learn from you. So when people say it's long-winded it annoys me a little because if they want someone spoon-feeding them they can find a ton of videos out there. 

Keep doing what you're doing please. I couldn't love your videos any more than i currently do. 

John,

That's high praise man, thank you. And I appreciate you stating your genuine opinion. I hear you. While I'd like to be a bit more concise, and "cut the fat" in my explanation of spots, I do rather enjoy exploring every detail of a spot, even if it may seem (or be) pretty straightforward. So I wouldn't expect any major changes, though hopefully I can optimize a bit in an effort to make as many people content with my videos as possible.

Cheers man, and thanks again for this comment and all of them over the months. 

GL,

Nick

Holy smokes. Ben, don't ever watch one of my videos again. The opportunity cost of you doing so is uncomfortable to me. You could be playing/preparing for 300/600 and instead you're occupying your time with my mindless MTT drivel - nonsense good sir!

Man, thank you for the generous compliment though. You're putting quite a positive spin on things here when you certainly don't have to. I wish I could claim I had some sort of brilliant teaching style or technique, but I think what you see is just a conditioned response from my having made many mistakes in assuming that I had the correct answer for a given situation - only to discover later that I was in fact making a significant error. 

And Ben I want to say a general, but massive, thank you. The time you put into RIO is remarkable. I imagine it's a lot more than you thought it would be when you began, but I (we, I'm sure) very much appreciate all of the amazing content you create and the conversations you have with all of us. You're doing a hell of a generous thing man, thank you.

It can be time consuming to run the hands on ICMizer, but frankly it's great for me to do for my own learning, and it should be good information for RIO members to see as well. Thanks for letting me know that you liked it. 

I think that it's going to be very difficult to run this in-game. And it's impossible to run it before you play a hand, so there isn't a ton of benefit in trying to get ICMizer set up to run a hand or hands from a final table while you're playing that final table. What I do is save hands that I think are close spots, and run them in ICMizer after the session is over or a couple of days later when I'm doing a lot of review. This works pretty well. Of course it would be nice to have the perfect answers as you play the hand, but I don't think this is a realistic possibility. 

Ty for the Scoop GL, I plan on using it =)  GL to you as well, Raphael. 

Hey jloo87,

Fair point! My reason say saying/thinking that shoving A8s here isn't a viable option is simply because my impression is that it's too many chips to shove. Admittedly, I'm not sure how the ICM looks for a large shove in a spot like this, so I can't say my thoughts here are grounded entirely in mathematical fact. I felt like by raise/folding A8s here, I'd have a very healthy, a very honest range. I'm not raise/folding much here, so having a hand with two blockers to hands that will rejam me, and having a good amount of postflop playability should I get flatted makes A8s an ideal raise/fold as part of my honest opening range. However, your point is a very good one: If I can make money by shoving A8s I really should do that, and I can replace A8s in my opening (to 2x) range with K8s or something. 

Hey man!

Fantastic question. And before I answer it, I want to say that I'm with you; ICM is a huge weakness of mine as well. The good news is that it's not beyond us to learn it you know, it just requires some time. My knowledge and experience (both limited still) comes from playing around with ICMizer, and from watching the tutorial videos on the site. I would highly recommend watching those. I'm not sure if you have to be a paying member to see those or not. 

This A7o spot facing a 16x shove: Villain is shoving all Ax for sure, and a great many other hands that we beat too. We're making clear chips, and likely a healthy amount of them at that. A perfect ICM wizard would be shoving 48% of hands here from the BTN; hands as weak as J4s and 98o. 

I believe the reason behind why ICM encourages a fold here is because the chips you stand to lose by calling and losing are more valuable than the chips you stand to win by calling and winning the pot. This is in terms of your likelihood of making the most dollars possible at this final table. So yes, when you call and double, you've got a much better chance of not only moving up the pay ladder, but using your ability to earn more chips, to find and/or create more +EV spots for yourself. However the flip side is just much more drastic. If you call and lose, your equity in the tournament is simply gone, and well, that's a pretty poor result, in human terms of course, but in terms of ICM as well. 

It's really interesting man. In terms of ICM, you have to begin thinking about things in totally foreign terms. It's so ingrained in our heads to play for chips. We've become very good at knowing when a situation is one where we stand to make chips, and when it's one we stand to lose them. Well ICM is a different system, and the same plays that make us chips can lose us dollars. It's very fascinating to me.

One thing to note. It's accepted that ICM doesn't have to be the end all be all. Well, I should be cautious using such a firm word as accepted. There is a good amount of debate as to the scope and limitations of ICM. For example, (and this is what's accepted) ICM cannot tell you how winning a pot and doubling up will completely affect your equity in the tournament. It can tell you how much each stack is now worth after you double up. But maybe now you'll have many more opportunities to apply pressure, to 3b less experienced players, etc. This will make doubling up worth more than it appear "on paper". But it's impossible to quantify this, so people feel very differently about it. Me personally, I definitely think there is something to that, and I'd be willing (potentially) to take some -$EV (ICM) plays on account of it. However in this spot, I think it's a clear fold because we're losing so many dollars by calling, that the times we double, our edge (if we have much of one at this tough table) will be hard-pressed to make up for that deficit. 

A final point that bears mentioning. ICM loves it when you fold. You want to stay out of as many all in situations as you can. The best way to improve your equity is to have another player knocked out. So a lot of times simply folding can be a wonderful play for you. Say you fold QTo UTG and now a player with 10BB on the button shoves with JT (he would have folded to your raise) and the BB calls him with A2 ( he would have folded to your raise). Now ~60% of the time JTo busts to A2 and you move up a pay jump.

I hope this helps! I really enjoyed such a well thought out question, let me know if there's anything else I can help clarify.

GL,

Nick

You're quite welcome. Again, I really enjoyed such a thoughtful question, and I'm glad you found my response helpful. I still haven't got the folding more part down quite yet in these spots either, hah. Although I suppose I behaved myself reasonably well at this final table. 

Cheers,

Nick