Great in dept info, sometimes it gets a little hard to visualize which boards we are talking about, but good analysis.
Could one use a lot of this information for cbetting in some positions besides Sb vs Bb, regarding board texture and sizings?
We're basically talking about three types of boards:
1-Good boards for OOP: A-Q(J) high, which in nature tend to be on the dry side (not many overcards/draws): Q52r, A74r, KK4s, J63r, KJ4r,...
2-Decent boards for OOP: T(J) high, more coordinated boards: J96s, T84s, 732r, T64r, 963r, 852s,...
3-Bad boards for OOP: very coordinated (and also the monotone) boards: 986s, 764s, 653s, 432s,...
The only tricky question is how to differentiate between the second and third types of boards and decide whether to cbet polarized or check whole range. And that's when SPR takes a huge role: with low SPRs some of our hands have a high EV and so we realize our equity much much better, therefore cbetting big sometimes; with high SPRs, we realize our equity much worse, so checking range will be the option much more often. The spots I analyzed are for kind of low SPRs (5 and 8), where we still have a lot of boards where we can cbet big and get it happily very often.
Second question: you can always extrapolate things for other spots, and learn stuff that works forever (there are a few concepts like that in this video). In general dry boards will be better for the aggressor and for high frequency cbetting and viceversa, but every spot is completely different and minor changes in preflop ranges, SPRs, equities, etc. affect a lot our results. 776s is a decent board for the agressor if the SPR is 4, and it's a terrible board if the SPR is 20. It's impossible to make rules, and that's why I always like to provide content and explain concepts that can be good forever and apply for other situations; otherwise the content I make will be outdated in a few weeks/months.
Content about other cbetting spots? I have a few videos on that. Just take a look here in RIO, you will find some good quality content if you search enough :)
Haha, allright allright, on the next video I think we can include a guitar+harmonica intro. If that's the part of the video you are more interested in, then fml :D
Looking forward to the next video. I may tend to check slightly more often than the “solution” in the video. I.e., play 100bb deep so bigger spr. Also sometimes cbetting a lot would face merged raising, happy to know u would address that in the next video. I’m also interested in how often should we 3 bet on flop and with what range ...
Well, if you play with 100b I'm pretty sure that there will be much more checking in general for the reasons I mention in the video, but if you're talking about the cbetting range boards, I will take cbetting range+facing a lot of raises vs semi random mixed cbet any day. Even though I still level myself a little bit against raises. Playing the flop as balanced as possible as often as possible is a major point for my success. Making the disciplined good cbet, even though I will be in a tough spot later in the hand if I get raised, is a key factor for me. Otherwise my game starts to crack from everywhere basically.
On next video I will address developing a correct mixed cbetting strategy, not playing vs raises after we cbet range. That's a video for another day, but regarding you question, it depends a lot, but in general we shouldnt 3bet too often (I guess even less with 100bb), but it totally depends on the board texture. More dynamic boards=more 3betting,dry boards=almost no 3betting,and also on position of course,oop=more 3 betting. Range will obviously be value hands vs the raising range + bluffs. If we get raised on A63s by a merged range that has a lot of Ax, AK becomes a pretty good 3betting candidate.
Depends on stack depth. With 40-50bb we can go really polarized as we dont need to call 4bets. Bluffs=bottom of calling range. I think this is the only preflop 3betting spot where we really go 100% polarized, 3betting hands that can call 4bets and (mostly) offsuit junk.
Just take a look at the ranges I give in this video in the SB vs BB (6 max) spot. The hands with 0.8 frequency rather than 1, are the good candidates for 3betting. K4o, Q5o, J7o, 97o, etc. Some 94s, T2s, 83s,... could also be good candidates
100bb will be different, as we need to have a somewhat merged range that can call 4bets, but the "fold to 4bet" hands will still be some pretty good junk I think.
Thank you for this analysis, really appreciate that massive work you have done. Your materials are most valuable in RIO for sure. In the next videos i'd like to see similar cbet analysis for 3bet pot OOP spots and single raised pots OOP (UTG-CO) vs IP.
Thank you for the video Diego. This is my first post on this forum and seems that your content was worthy of that :) Glad you made excactly this analysis because you managed to get results from the solver that support many players intuition on how to play these bad boards oop but have problems implementing their strategy. I noticed that atleast I'm guilty of cbetting too much on lower paired boards. Not sure if I pressed the like button on your previous videos but your PioSolver-series was probably the best theory series on this site or at least very close to it!
yeah ... read some more posts... actually 100bb i think 3 betting some marginal calling hands at a controllable frequency in BB vs sb BB vs Bn is necessary ... hands like T8o . 67o.. Q5s .K3s. etc...
What I meant is that OOP there is more incentive to 3bet+fold some decent hands. Just to put an example, AQo vs EP raise (40-50bb deep) might work as a mixed strategy 3bet/folding and calling, despite having to fold our equity against a jam. We could 3bet some AJo or some KQo, whereas for example the weaker offsuit broadways play as a call always in bvb because now the EV of calling is so much better for being IP.
In less words: our folding to 4bet range needs to be stronger OOP and therefore somewhat merged, whereas IP it can be truly polarized (meaning bottom of cold calling range).
Another excellent video.
In terms of further content, something on turn strategy and also guidelines when facing a raise of our cbet (readless) which I guess is most applicable to the cbet range scenario.
Yes, that is one of my in development ideas, not sure if it will end up being a video, but it's definitely been one of the most demanded topics so I will try :)
Great idea to group the flops after cbet percentage!
It is easy to lose overview when researching with Pio because there are so many variables but you seem to have gotten a good grasp of how to get some results.
Yes, it was a great idea and I'm very proud of it!
For a while I was stuck in this SB vs BB scenario, with huge different types of strategies, flops, and also huge ranges; but after a long time working with solutions I sticked to what I knew alwayas has proven to work, like I say in the video:
high cbetting flops = range, high average sizing+high checking=range we lose a lot of EV, mixed; monotone boards OOP= check range, and then was left with the rest of the boards, which had a low average sizing (40%) and somewhat low cbet (50%), and turned out that they also worked great with range. Problem solved :D
Just another thought. It would be good if you could cover where you would incorporate open limping into your SB strategy and talk about preflop and postflop aspects of that strategy .
I realise that this is a pretty big topic but it would be good to have some thoughts on how you would integrate this into your SB strategy at the SPRs under discussion.
Well, to be honest I'm currently playing in some ante/no rake games, and even in these games that are ideal for developing such strategy, I don't feel the need to implement it right now. There is so much EV to gain from other spots... Ideally I would solve the whole game, but if I did that and came back let's say 4 years later, the games by then could have dried out, or maybe AI would have taken over online poker and it would be dead lol so I just prioritize the most important/urgent things for me at every moment.
Playing well SB vs BB is very important because it happens very often, but developing a solid SB strategy that includes limping, I don't feel it would add enough EV for me in the games I play in order for me to develop it. If I played high stakes ante games I would for sure, but right now it's not a thing.
Sorry to disappoint you hehe, anyway I will keep making videos that add great value for the viewers (and for me) :)
Thank you sir! Going to take some serious holidays for about 5 weeks I think, starting next week, so it will take some time, but definitely will make part 2.
I have two videos I wanted to cover since my very first video, which are 1-mixed cbetting strategies and 2-facing check raises after cbetting range; I have 3 videos left for RIO and I'm almost sure 2 of them will cover these two topics, and second part on this SB vs BB series, mixed cbetting, will for sure be one of them. Glad you liked it :)
Diego, great video, I'll definitively be watching the serie. I enjoy a lot these cbet strategy PIO videos
I really need to work on a polarized cbetting strategy when OOP, I mean, in a 953s flop, which hands are better to bet 80% as a bluff (Ex: JTs with a backdoor or a flush draw?). A given bluff combo is better to play as a bet/fold or check/raise? How does SPR affect it? This is why I'm waiting for the second video.
Ive seen ur vids and wanna play 40bb game seriously. In live session review videos, u seem to use mixed strategy a lot. why dont you use strategy fully that u build in PIO series? while watching PIO vids, i thought that its super simple strategy and powerful but because of Cbeting too much it cant be used fully vs REG. Is it useful strategy in reality? thanks for awesome vids and i expect next series :)
I think in the live sessions I have uploaded here I have tried to use a flop strategy as close to GTO as possible!
Yes, it's a very useful strategy in reality :)
Thanks Rami. Very glad to see you back to RIO.
Honestly, your C-bet series helps me a lot and let me see flop on a different way.
BTW, could you share your chart to everyone?
I looked in my solved trees and I can't find it, but I'm pretty certain 49% is very close to optimal for a raise/fold strategy opening to 2.5x with 40bb effective and no ante.
For BB vs STR (with SB and 1sb ante), 58-59% is suggested for a 4x open (50 str effective):
What would be PIO opening range for 100bb stacks tho in that spot and comparatively what
would be the change for SB cbetting strategy given you analysis? Probably with an SPR or 16
as a standard OOP will deploy a checking only strategy quiet more often, right?
Loading 42 Comments...
Great in dept info, sometimes it gets a little hard to visualize which boards we are talking about, but good analysis.
Could one use a lot of this information for cbetting in some positions besides Sb vs Bb, regarding board texture and sizings?
If not, is there with content about it ?
Cheers
We're basically talking about three types of boards:
1-Good boards for OOP: A-Q(J) high, which in nature tend to be on the dry side (not many overcards/draws): Q52r, A74r, KK4s, J63r, KJ4r,...
2-Decent boards for OOP: T(J) high, more coordinated boards: J96s, T84s, 732r, T64r, 963r, 852s,...
3-Bad boards for OOP: very coordinated (and also the monotone) boards: 986s, 764s, 653s, 432s,...
The only tricky question is how to differentiate between the second and third types of boards and decide whether to cbet polarized or check whole range. And that's when SPR takes a huge role: with low SPRs some of our hands have a high EV and so we realize our equity much much better, therefore cbetting big sometimes; with high SPRs, we realize our equity much worse, so checking range will be the option much more often. The spots I analyzed are for kind of low SPRs (5 and 8), where we still have a lot of boards where we can cbet big and get it happily very often.
Second question: you can always extrapolate things for other spots, and learn stuff that works forever (there are a few concepts like that in this video). In general dry boards will be better for the aggressor and for high frequency cbetting and viceversa, but every spot is completely different and minor changes in preflop ranges, SPRs, equities, etc. affect a lot our results. 776s is a decent board for the agressor if the SPR is 4, and it's a terrible board if the SPR is 20. It's impossible to make rules, and that's why I always like to provide content and explain concepts that can be good forever and apply for other situations; otherwise the content I make will be outdated in a few weeks/months.
Content about other cbetting spots? I have a few videos on that. Just take a look here in RIO, you will find some good quality content if you search enough :)
Thanks a lot Diego, keep it up.
Well thought in making content that is proven against time.
Will check your other content. Cheers
Thank you for this very useful content.
However I really missed the guitar part at the beggining of the video !! ^^
Bring the guitar back. And more theory videos plz.
Haha, allright allright, on the next video I think we can include a guitar+harmonica intro. If that's the part of the video you are more interested in, then fml :D
Looking forward to the next video. I may tend to check slightly more often than the “solution” in the video. I.e., play 100bb deep so bigger spr. Also sometimes cbetting a lot would face merged raising, happy to know u would address that in the next video. I’m also interested in how often should we 3 bet on flop and with what range ...
Well, if you play with 100b I'm pretty sure that there will be much more checking in general for the reasons I mention in the video, but if you're talking about the cbetting range boards, I will take cbetting range+facing a lot of raises vs semi random mixed cbet any day. Even though I still level myself a little bit against raises. Playing the flop as balanced as possible as often as possible is a major point for my success. Making the disciplined good cbet, even though I will be in a tough spot later in the hand if I get raised, is a key factor for me. Otherwise my game starts to crack from everywhere basically.
On next video I will address developing a correct mixed cbetting strategy, not playing vs raises after we cbet range. That's a video for another day, but regarding you question, it depends a lot, but in general we shouldnt 3bet too often (I guess even less with 100bb), but it totally depends on the board texture. More dynamic boards=more 3betting,dry boards=almost no 3betting,and also on position of course,oop=more 3 betting. Range will obviously be value hands vs the raising range + bluffs. If we get raised on A63s by a merged range that has a lot of Ax, AK becomes a pretty good 3betting candidate.
great video=) what du u recommend for 3 betting % and range in the bb vs sb open?
Depends on stack depth. With 40-50bb we can go really polarized as we dont need to call 4bets. Bluffs=bottom of calling range. I think this is the only preflop 3betting spot where we really go 100% polarized, 3betting hands that can call 4bets and (mostly) offsuit junk.
Just take a look at the ranges I give in this video in the SB vs BB (6 max) spot. The hands with 0.8 frequency rather than 1, are the good candidates for 3betting. K4o, Q5o, J7o, 97o, etc. Some 94s, T2s, 83s,... could also be good candidates
100bb will be different, as we need to have a somewhat merged range that can call 4bets, but the "fold to 4bet" hands will still be some pretty good junk I think.
Thank you for this analysis, really appreciate that massive work you have done. Your materials are most valuable in RIO for sure. In the next videos i'd like to see similar cbet analysis for 3bet pot OOP spots and single raised pots OOP (UTG-CO) vs IP.
Thank you for the video Diego. This is my first post on this forum and seems that your content was worthy of that :) Glad you made excactly this analysis because you managed to get results from the solver that support many players intuition on how to play these bad boards oop but have problems implementing their strategy. I noticed that atleast I'm guilty of cbetting too much on lower paired boards. Not sure if I pressed the like button on your previous videos but your PioSolver-series was probably the best theory series on this site or at least very close to it!
Thanks for your comment! We'll cover these "bad" boards a little bit on part 2 of these miniseries.
yeah ... read some more posts... actually 100bb i think 3 betting some marginal calling hands at a controllable frequency in BB vs sb BB vs Bn is necessary ... hands like T8o . 67o.. Q5s .K3s. etc...
BB vs BTN is a different thing for sure, our folding to 4bet hands are not pure trash. But I'm not an expert on 100b, so :)
What I meant is that OOP there is more incentive to 3bet+fold some decent hands. Just to put an example, AQo vs EP raise (40-50bb deep) might work as a mixed strategy 3bet/folding and calling, despite having to fold our equity against a jam. We could 3bet some AJo or some KQo, whereas for example the weaker offsuit broadways play as a call always in bvb because now the EV of calling is so much better for being IP.
In less words: our folding to 4bet range needs to be stronger OOP and therefore somewhat merged, whereas IP it can be truly polarized (meaning bottom of cold calling range).
Another excellent video.
In terms of further content, something on turn strategy and also guidelines when facing a raise of our cbet (readless) which I guess is most applicable to the cbet range scenario.
Yes, that is one of my in development ideas, not sure if it will end up being a video, but it's definitely been one of the most demanded topics so I will try :)
Great idea to group the flops after cbet percentage!
It is easy to lose overview when researching with Pio because there are so many variables but you seem to have gotten a good grasp of how to get some results.
Yes, it was a great idea and I'm very proud of it!
For a while I was stuck in this SB vs BB scenario, with huge different types of strategies, flops, and also huge ranges; but after a long time working with solutions I sticked to what I knew alwayas has proven to work, like I say in the video:
high cbetting flops = range, high average sizing+high checking=range we lose a lot of EV, mixed; monotone boards OOP= check range, and then was left with the rest of the boards, which had a low average sizing (40%) and somewhat low cbet (50%), and turned out that they also worked great with range. Problem solved :D
very generous amount of info in this video. thank you.
Just another thought. It would be good if you could cover where you would incorporate open limping into your SB strategy and talk about preflop and postflop aspects of that strategy .
I realise that this is a pretty big topic but it would be good to have some thoughts on how you would integrate this into your SB strategy at the SPRs under discussion.
Well, to be honest I'm currently playing in some ante/no rake games, and even in these games that are ideal for developing such strategy, I don't feel the need to implement it right now. There is so much EV to gain from other spots... Ideally I would solve the whole game, but if I did that and came back let's say 4 years later, the games by then could have dried out, or maybe AI would have taken over online poker and it would be dead lol so I just prioritize the most important/urgent things for me at every moment.
Playing well SB vs BB is very important because it happens very often, but developing a solid SB strategy that includes limping, I don't feel it would add enough EV for me in the games I play in order for me to develop it. If I played high stakes ante games I would for sure, but right now it's not a thing.
Sorry to disappoint you hehe, anyway I will keep making videos that add great value for the viewers (and for me) :)
keeping your word is important, even if the task is not. Kudos.
incredibly nice " theory video " .
want to watch your next one!!
Thank you sir! Going to take some serious holidays for about 5 weeks I think, starting next week, so it will take some time, but definitely will make part 2.
I have two videos I wanted to cover since my very first video, which are 1-mixed cbetting strategies and 2-facing check raises after cbetting range; I have 3 videos left for RIO and I'm almost sure 2 of them will cover these two topics, and second part on this SB vs BB series, mixed cbetting, will for sure be one of them. Glad you liked it :)
Renew ur contract with RIO plz.
That's a very nice compliment, sir :D
Diego, great video, I'll definitively be watching the serie. I enjoy a lot these cbet strategy PIO videos
I really need to work on a polarized cbetting strategy when OOP, I mean, in a 953s flop, which hands are better to bet 80% as a bluff (Ex: JTs with a backdoor or a flush draw?). A given bluff combo is better to play as a bet/fold or check/raise? How does SPR affect it? This is why I'm waiting for the second video.
Yeah, and some of these questions I will try to answer them the best I can! Glad you liked the vid ^^
Ive seen ur vids and wanna play 40bb game seriously. In live session review videos, u seem to use mixed strategy a lot. why dont you use strategy fully that u build in PIO series? while watching PIO vids, i thought that its super simple strategy and powerful but because of Cbeting too much it cant be used fully vs REG. Is it useful strategy in reality? thanks for awesome vids and i expect next series :)
I think in the live sessions I have uploaded here I have tried to use a flop strategy as close to GTO as possible!
Yes, it's a very useful strategy in reality :)
Thanks Rami. Very glad to see you back to RIO.
Honestly, your C-bet series helps me a lot and let me see flop on a different way.
BTW, could you share your chart to everyone?
I stick to Sauce's answer regarding sharing charts, it's not fair for PioSOLVER creators and also less pain for me :P
Reasonable, thanks anyway.
Golden content. Thank you Diego! Looking fwd to future videos, and many more than just 3 preferably.
Good video, the 49,3% is the GTO Pio solver suggested SB open range?
I looked in my solved trees and I can't find it, but I'm pretty certain 49% is very close to optimal for a raise/fold strategy opening to 2.5x with 40bb effective and no ante.
For BB vs STR (with SB and 1sb ante), 58-59% is suggested for a 4x open (50 str effective):
https://gyazo.com/43a0e5c3b8982103f3bf6829f49c2eac
Hi! Can you possibly upload that excel file you are using with the flop textures? That would be so helpful!
Thanks!
What would be PIO opening range for 100bb stacks tho in that spot and comparatively what
would be the change for SB cbetting strategy given you analysis? Probably with an SPR or 16
as a standard OOP will deploy a checking only strategy quiet more often, right?
HI Diego Ramirez , will be usefull attach link to the excel file.
Great video! I appreciate your honestly at the beginning of the video as well. Thank you for taking the time to coach very useful information!
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