Seems odd ot me that 67s is chosen as the bluff for IP vs both bet sizes despite the fact that I believe 7s made it into the checking range for OOP.
Seems a little odd, no? I definitely see merits to this in practice (because it's easy to remember to shove one specific hands) but PIO shouldn't care about that sort of thing.
Any idea why this hand is the bluff? Is it just that all stronger hands become calls at certain frequencies and while this one doesn't have positive blocker effects it at least doesn't block any/many bluffs (AQ/KQ/KT) hands
Yea, that definitely makes sense. But that would only contribute to our bluff needing to be stronger than AK or w/e and doesn't explain why it seems to favor the 7 blocker over something that blocks value as well
In practice this river gets raised by IP close to 0%, so if you cut the raise node from the tree, I'm assuming it would jack up the frequency of oop's river shove.
I agree with MrPeanuts , especially vs PSB, in practise KK/AA (AJ dont even need to say) are just called. Therefore as an exploit overbet shoving range for OOP might become correct, well played in game =)
Overall, great video, gave me a lot of insights in many parts of the game tree. THX ben =)
Yep. There were certainly a bunch of problems with this model.
For example, if I had been careful to spread out the 3b bluffs better, it's possible AKo/AQs/ATs make it into the flop XC range with a higher freq and the river equilibrium is changed.
@ 18:48 you remark that we have no oop leads, but I think you need to check the box to give it that option when setting the parameters. don't think it matters in this case cause oop doesn't improve to a very strong hand enough on the 7.
As you like to move the pointer around a lot, for those of us who are easily visually distracted it would be helpful if you checked Tools::Configuration::General View::require click to update zoom.
As Pio doesn't indicate in any way which of the actions it's displaying frequencies for in the 169x169, please clearly announce when you click one of the actions next to the grid's upper right.
I really liked this type of video and would be glad to see more. As I think OneGapper was alluding to, if my mind wandered for a second I wasn't always sure which part of range of the game tree you were discussing
I dont get one thing. Probably because Im a noob, but w/e
KJs for example gets bet for pot 17.5% of the time, gets checked 3% of the time, and bet half pot for 71% of the time.
That combined gives around 92% . What is happening with the other 8% ? Sorry if its a stupid question
same with AJs: pot 52%, haf 28% . Where is the remaining 20%?
99 is showing like 20% total or less.
(is it because its counting the % of total combos removing the J on the board+ the blockers from oponents range? or what?) And if so, wouldnt it just be better to show the % of time we are taking some action given the total ammount of combos in our range given the line we took (after discounting blockers also, makes it less complicated imo.)
Also, why pot and half pot river instead of say 2/3 and 120% pot.
And if we are checking 77 for c/r on river, what are we gona c/r bluff
This confuses me too. I'm not sure which node you're talking about, but the PIO outputs I'm referencing in in the video are absolute: you're seeing the frequency of KJs that gets here and does X action, starting from preflop. So, for example, if I 3b AA 50% and call AA 50%, then C-bet flop half the time in 3bp, the absolute amount of AA that gets C-bet on flop is 25%.
Why do you think just few high stakes regulars has x/r range in 3bet pots? It's too hard to incorparate into game and stay well balanced, having still decent x/c range or what?
Hey Sauce, thanks for the vid!
On flop vs the cbet from IP, any idea why PIO suggests OOP to fold 88-66 and calling with 77 ? These hands look similar .
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first, hope its as good as usual :)
screens black but audios playing??
Seems odd ot me that 67s is chosen as the bluff for IP vs both bet sizes despite the fact that I believe 7s made it into the checking range for OOP.
Seems a little odd, no? I definitely see merits to this in practice (because it's easy to remember to shove one specific hands) but PIO shouldn't care about that sort of thing.
Any idea why this hand is the bluff? Is it just that all stronger hands become calls at certain frequencies and while this one doesn't have positive blocker effects it at least doesn't block any/many bluffs (AQ/KQ/KT) hands
could it have something to do with preventing OOP being able to smth ridiculous like bet-call AK?
Yea, that definitely makes sense. But that would only contribute to our bluff needing to be stronger than AK or w/e and doesn't explain why it seems to favor the 7 blocker over something that blocks value as well
In practice this river gets raised by IP close to 0%, so if you cut the raise node from the tree, I'm assuming it would jack up the frequency of oop's river shove.
I agree with MrPeanuts , especially vs PSB, in practise KK/AA (AJ dont even need to say) are just called. Therefore as an exploit overbet shoving range for OOP might become correct, well played in game =)
Overall, great video, gave me a lot of insights in many parts of the game tree. THX ben =)
Definitely more of these types of videos. Awesome!
Seems like the three bet bluffs are better spread out about A2s-A5s so that A5s is not playing such big role.
Yep. There were certainly a bunch of problems with this model.
For example, if I had been careful to spread out the 3b bluffs better, it's possible AKo/AQs/ATs make it into the flop XC range with a higher freq and the river equilibrium is changed.
@ 18:48 you remark that we have no oop leads, but I think you need to check the box to give it that option when setting the parameters. don't think it matters in this case cause oop doesn't improve to a very strong hand enough on the 7.
Playing ONedrop and main event for next few days, comments might be slower than usual.
As you like to move the pointer around a lot, for those of us who are easily visually distracted it would be helpful if you checked Tools::Configuration::General View::require click to update zoom.
As Pio doesn't indicate in any way which of the actions it's displaying frequencies for in the 169x169, please clearly announce when you click one of the actions next to the grid's upper right.
I really liked this type of video and would be glad to see more. As I think OneGapper was alluding to, if my mind wandered for a second I wasn't always sure which part of range of the game tree you were discussing
Great vid! Much better than the real play stuff.
I would like to see how a different 3bet range would affect this analysis.
Maybe more Axs, AQo and less 76s, TT-, AJs.
What is your thought about how/what would change?
45:07 <3
Prefer Live plays by far over this, hope you will soon do something like the NL2kZ series again! :)
I don't find this kind of video dry. In fact, I quite enjoy them. I think the takeaways are very valuable if watched with close attention.
I would love to see more videos in such detailed format. Thanks Sauce and GL!
There were several mentions of betting for "tempo" reasons. I've heard this term in chess and Magic, but not in poker... what does it mean here?
I dont get one thing. Probably because Im a noob, but w/e
KJs for example gets bet for pot 17.5% of the time, gets checked 3% of the time, and bet half pot for 71% of the time.
That combined gives around 92% . What is happening with the other 8% ? Sorry if its a stupid question
same with AJs: pot 52%, haf 28% . Where is the remaining 20%?
99 is showing like 20% total or less.
(is it because its counting the % of total combos removing the J on the board+ the blockers from oponents range? or what?) And if so, wouldnt it just be better to show the % of time we are taking some action given the total ammount of combos in our range given the line we took (after discounting blockers also, makes it less complicated imo.)
Also, why pot and half pot river instead of say 2/3 and 120% pot.
And if we are checking 77 for c/r on river, what are we gona c/r bluff
Nice Video Sauce, thanks a lot
This confuses me too. I'm not sure which node you're talking about, but the PIO outputs I'm referencing in in the video are absolute: you're seeing the frequency of KJs that gets here and does X action, starting from preflop. So, for example, if I 3b AA 50% and call AA 50%, then C-bet flop half the time in 3bp, the absolute amount of AA that gets C-bet on flop is 25%.
thanks Ben. you da best
Oh also. What version of Pio is this? Basic, Pro or Edge? I want to buy it
Why do you think just few high stakes regulars has x/r range in 3bet pots? It's too hard to incorparate into game and stay well balanced, having still decent x/c range or what?
Hey Sauce, thanks for the vid!
On flop vs the cbet from IP, any idea why PIO suggests OOP to fold 88-66 and calling with 77 ? These hands look similar .
When pio recommends to fold more than mdf would suggest, is that a result of a equity / range disadvantage?
Why do you think pocket 7's are a pure call for out of position on the flop, but pocket 8's seem to be mostly folded?
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