I wonder if RIO intends to start making videos on other growing games for ex. PLO8 or something like transitioning to mixed games from PLO, NLHE, SNGs and nlhe MTTs, that would definetely keep me arround and happy, not that i am not happy now, but would love to develop into a more complete player for the future when the current games get dryer, if they will?
Phil, in your opinion, what's the biggest difference between playing "one of the worlds best poker players" and playing your average below average player? Ie....the kind of player I'm most likely to come across. Also, I've heard some top players say they would rather play with a knowledgable player than someone with very little knowledge of the game. Do you agree? Sorry if these questions seem random but I think you know the style. Thanks.
It's difficult to specify the difference, as it really depends on the type of below average player you're playing against. In general, you can be less worried about balance and about disguising your hands against a weaker player.
One thing that's very important: You are always better off playing against a weak player (save a few very weird situations) than against a strong player.
Yes, you will sometimes guess incorrectly against someone with an erratic, nonsensical style, but their mistakes will significantly outweigh any "mistakes" you make against their oddly played hands.
At 4:45 With the only outs to a strong hand being our GS, I don't see how xc'ing a hand this weak can be +EV even if he doesn't play tough. If we had a pair with it on T87 I could see xc as a good option. Apparently you disagree, can you elaborate on how vs a competent opponent we will turn a profit with a xc. Its not like we are even loving our situation on a club, K, Q, J and we probably fold on a 5. This hand seems too weak to call yet a much better candidate to c/r given we have nutty outs for the times we do hit and we block the nuts a bit.
I like to x/c this hand because I get to represent things on various board run outs, and when I x/c and hit the nuts, I think he'd consider it a small part of my range.
That said, you may be right. I don't want to x/f this hand, but perhaps I can lead (or x/r maybe). Against most opponents lately, I simply never lead this board, which is why I didn't consider it in this hand.
That KQ value bet in the same hand seems like it's literally never getting called by worse. What about checking to check/fold or check/call depending on reads?
+.5 (Agree for most part) I think it can occasionally get called by worse but I also prefer a x/c because in that spot I think villains will actually value bet thinner than they hero call. Once Phil bets he can only get called if villain thinks he is turning some made hand into a bluff but given Phil nearly always has SD value I agree that villain wont call that often. But once Phil checks 3 streets I think villain can go for value with any K's up and maybe Q's up.
He has some bluffs just not many (AAQJ, AA89, AQJ5, etc). In this spot he may want to rep a more polarized range by betting large so villain doesn't include a lot of 2pr combos in Phil's range thus calls lighter. But I do agree that given his range has so much SD value and villains range is weak given turn checked through, a smaller bet is prob better than a bigger one. I still just think flop is close between c/r and c/f depending on villain not x/c. And river is close but I think a x/c will induce some value cutting and a rare bluff more than a value bet will illicit a light call.
Also given we are trying to rep a bluff with AA or similar the only worse hands that can call us are worse 2pr. However on T87,Q turn I'd expect a lot of Qx 2pr combos to bet for thin value/protection. Given it checked through I believe he is missing a big portion of the hands we are looking to get hero called by.
Thanks for the reply Phil. At risk of beating a dead horse i have one more related set of comments/questions. You say you xc to represent things on various runouts. On T87, what runouts would you rep things? On board pairs you could try repping boats but given his range hits this flop better than yours he is betting 2pr and sets on flop so you will be bluffing into a range that contains boats. Additionally you don't have many sets in your range pf only some 2pr combos. On an A, or K turn you can rep a set but that only works if he caps his range by checking turn because you wouldn't cr set if he bet turn again with straights in his range. Its a fairly lockdown dry flop so there aren't many great run-outs i.e the nuts aren't changing on the turn as often as other boards limiting your ability to rep stuff. The nuts change on a 9, but you hit that. On a J, you could rep Q9, but if you think he'll find J9 deceptive I don't see how you expect to rep Q9 successfully.
When you said you haven't been leading I think you meant cbetting given you were pfr but yes I get that, I wasn't suggesting leading. Sounds like you might agree cr is better with this particular hand and if so whatever you made a mistake. But if you still like xc I'm following up because I can't see it yet and I trust your judgement over mine.
Please ask more followups if this short response isn't enough (I'm in bed about to sleep)-
It's very difficult to find raises on brick turns or any scare card turn for that matter. What's important here is:
1) He has a weak/merged stabbing range 2) I have extremely little air in my x/c range, and I have board coverage on any possible run out (protected by my slowplays) 3) As a very simplistic answer for now, due to 1 & 2- He's likely to have a reasonable check-back frequency on the turn, and I'd probably show a profit bluffing river after he checks back on almost all board runouts that leave me with weak-no SD value.
Heading to bed as well. And yeah that does help. Thanks. I figured you would c/r the top of your range ie straights given if you ever bluff here you would need balance. Accordingly that would leave your xc range capped. From that I envisioned villain not checking back turn often and having a profitable bet bet bet spot if we were capped and xc this light. But if you are xc j9 along with TT+draw then that does make sense that he can't exploit your range by bet bet bet as I thought he could.
Does this mean you might not have a cr range here at all?
It seems that you wouldn't have enough combos of J9 or TT+draw to be able to split them up into slowplay and cr. We would like to have a c/r range so that he can't bet as wide for protection knowing we only xc or cf. But perhaps in these spots we have to pick our battles? We don't have enough ammo (J9's) to shoot down every target. Meaning its hard enough to have enough hands PF to hit this flop so we choose to protect our xc range which consists of a lot of overpairs with weak draws in lieu of having a cr range.
Hey we are getting there! I was missing that you would slowplay. Respond at your leisure.
A question on the very first hand JT84ds: Aren't you committed to call the 4bet since the original squeezer is short and if you overcall the 4bet you won't be forced to commit you whole stack? You have to call 4400 to win 13000 for the 3way pot and then have huge odds on basically any pair that you hit; your hand has plenty of clean two pair outs against both of their ranges (assumming jedimaster is not super crazy 4bettor) and it's double suited.
minute 21 , you fold in SB AQ92$ds vs an open from BUT... this hand ranks top 15% and the guy who open seems the spot on the table. is this correct or did u just missed that hand? also the BUT is kinda shortstack so 3bettting seees more correct than folding, even a call seems better than folding.
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just made dinner , perfect timing :)
@Loannis I'm hungry as well.
Phil, do you think NLHE players will improve their NLHE game by watching PLO videos?
Slightly, but I think they'd be better off learning some PLO from them :)
I wonder if RIO intends to start making videos on other growing games for ex. PLO8 or something like transitioning to mixed games from PLO, NLHE, SNGs and nlhe MTTs, that would definetely keep me arround and happy, not that i am not happy now, but would love to develop into a more complete player for the future when the current games get dryer, if they will?
Phil, in your opinion, what's the biggest difference between playing "one of the worlds best poker players" and playing your average below average player? Ie....the kind of player I'm most likely to come across. Also, I've heard some top players say they would rather play with a knowledgable player than someone with very little knowledge of the game. Do you agree? Sorry if these questions seem random but I think you know the style. Thanks.
It's difficult to specify the difference, as it really depends on the type of below average player you're playing against. In general, you can be less worried about balance and about disguising your hands against a weaker player.
One thing that's very important: You are always better off playing against a weak player (save a few very weird situations) than against a strong player.
Yes, you will sometimes guess incorrectly against someone with an erratic, nonsensical style, but their mistakes will significantly outweigh any "mistakes" you make against their oddly played hands.
At 4:45 With the only outs to a strong hand being our GS, I don't see how xc'ing a hand this weak can be +EV even if he doesn't play tough. If we had a pair with it on T87 I could see xc as a good option. Apparently you disagree, can you elaborate on how vs a competent opponent we will turn a profit with a xc. Its not like we are even loving our situation on a club, K, Q, J and we probably fold on a 5. This hand seems too weak to call yet a much better candidate to c/r given we have nutty outs for the times we do hit and we block the nuts a bit.
I like to x/c this hand because I get to represent things on various board run outs, and when I x/c and hit the nuts, I think he'd consider it a small part of my range.
That said, you may be right. I don't want to x/f this hand, but perhaps I can lead (or x/r maybe). Against most opponents lately, I simply never lead this board, which is why I didn't consider it in this hand.
That KQ value bet in the same hand seems like it's literally never getting called by worse. What about checking to check/fold or check/call depending on reads?
+.5 (Agree for most part) I think it can occasionally get called by worse but I also prefer a x/c because in that spot I think villains will actually value bet thinner than they hero call. Once Phil bets he can only get called if villain thinks he is turning some made hand into a bluff but given Phil nearly always has SD value I agree that villain wont call that often. But once Phil checks 3 streets I think villain can go for value with any K's up and maybe Q's up.
Why bet the river so large at 7:40 with KQ if you never have bluffs?
He has some bluffs just not many (AAQJ, AA89, AQJ5, etc). In this spot he may want to rep a more polarized range by betting large so villain doesn't include a lot of 2pr combos in Phil's range thus calls lighter. But I do agree that given his range has so much SD value and villains range is weak given turn checked through, a smaller bet is prob better than a bigger one. I still just think flop is close between c/r and c/f depending on villain not x/c. And river is close but I think a x/c will induce some value cutting and a rare bluff more than a value bet will illicit a light call.
Also given we are trying to rep a bluff with AA or similar the only worse hands that can call us are worse 2pr. However on T87,Q turn I'd expect a lot of Qx 2pr combos to bet for thin value/protection. Given it checked through I believe he is missing a big portion of the hands we are looking to get hero called by.
Thanks for the reply Phil. At risk of beating a dead horse i have one more related set of comments/questions. You say you xc to represent things on various runouts. On T87, what runouts would you rep things? On board pairs you could try repping boats but given his range hits this flop better than yours he is betting 2pr and sets on flop so you will be bluffing into a range that contains boats. Additionally you don't have many sets in your range pf only some 2pr combos. On an A, or K turn you can rep a set but that only works if he caps his range by checking turn because you wouldn't cr set if he bet turn again with straights in his range. Its a fairly lockdown dry flop so there aren't many great run-outs i.e the nuts aren't changing on the turn as often as other boards limiting your ability to rep stuff. The nuts change on a 9, but you hit that. On a J, you could rep Q9, but if you think he'll find J9 deceptive I don't see how you expect to rep Q9 successfully.
When you said you haven't been leading I think you meant cbetting given you were pfr but yes I get that, I wasn't suggesting leading. Sounds like you might agree cr is better with this particular hand and if so whatever you made a mistake. But if you still like xc I'm following up because I can't see it yet and I trust your judgement over mine.
Hey man,
Please ask more followups if this short response isn't enough (I'm in bed about to sleep)-
It's very difficult to find raises on brick turns or any scare card turn for that matter. What's important here is:
1) He has a weak/merged stabbing range
2) I have extremely little air in my x/c range, and I have board coverage on any possible run out (protected by my slowplays)
3) As a very simplistic answer for now, due to 1 & 2- He's likely to have a reasonable check-back frequency on the turn, and I'd probably show a profit bluffing river after he checks back on almost all board runouts that leave me with weak-no SD value.
Heading to bed as well. And yeah that does help. Thanks. I figured you would c/r the top of your range ie straights given if you ever bluff here you would need balance. Accordingly that would leave your xc range capped. From that I envisioned villain not checking back turn often and having a profitable bet bet bet spot if we were capped and xc this light. But if you are xc j9 along with TT+draw then that does make sense that he can't exploit your range by bet bet bet as I thought he could.
Does this mean you might not have a cr range here at all?
It seems that you wouldn't have enough combos of J9 or TT+draw to be able to split them up into slowplay and cr. We would like to have a c/r range so that he can't bet as wide for protection knowing we only xc or cf. But perhaps in these spots we have to pick our battles? We don't have enough ammo (J9's) to shoot down every target. Meaning its hard enough to have enough hands PF to hit this flop so we choose to protect our xc range which consists of a lot of overpairs with weak draws in lieu of having a cr range.
Hey we are getting there! I was missing that you would slowplay. Respond at your leisure.
Zach
Great vid again.
Bit Off Topic, but maybe since its post WSOP that you can take time to post your opinion on how to stop multiaccounters like Harrington for example in this thread? http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/multi-accounting-cheating-high-stakes-jared-bleznick-more-1354618/
Hi Phil,
I really enjoy the series here.
A question on the very first hand JT84ds: Aren't you committed to call the 4bet since the original squeezer is short and if you overcall the 4bet you won't be forced to commit you whole stack? You have to call 4400 to win 13000 for the 3way pot and then have huge odds on basically any pair that you hit; your hand has plenty of clean two pair outs against both of their ranges (assumming jedimaster is not super crazy 4bettor) and it's double suited.
minute 21 , you fold in SB AQ92$ds vs an open from BUT... this hand ranks top 15% and the guy who open seems the spot on the table. is this correct or did u just missed that hand?
also the BUT is kinda shortstack so 3bettting seees more correct than folding, even a call seems better than folding.
thanks phil !
fart at 54:50?
i was wondering about that AQ92 hand alex is talking about as well, thought it may be a defend in some way facing a button range. but i could be wrong
great video, thanks !
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