200/400 PLO Session Against Isildur, Sauce, and Gus (2 of 3)
Posted by Phil Galfond
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I dont really play plo much, but like watching ur vids as i like ur thought process talking abour ranges/adjustments etc, think it helps my nlh game (obv i understand ur not the best guy to make NLH videos right now, just cose u havent been playing them, but NLH from you, or MSNL+ plo is always welcomed)
Few questions here:
1) at 7:10 JJ74sshh, we managed to chk/raise on 3h 3s 9c against Sauce's cbet $1.7k into $2.9k pot. Do we ever fold out any better hand such as QQ-AA by chk/raising? Also it's likely to get click-it-back against tough opponent so we may have to fold the best hand. If villain called and the Turn doesn't bring any of our backdoor outs, is it still a good time to chk/fold or continue to represent a value range? (3 or 99) Usually in this spot I think we have very low visibility of villain's hand so it seems hard to continue the hand (guess if we bet the Turn, it's 2-outer semi-bluff) Definitely I accept what you talked about this chk/raise is "a protection raise plus semi-bluff" but just still have above questions in my mind =).
2) at 5:30, bottom right table, HU vs Sauce, we have K6ssQ3dd at BB, facing BTN open and we just called. I personally play mostly at 6max not HU but still consider this hand in late position battle spot could be 3betting in terms of hand value and playability. This type of hands is definitely not as strong as QKJT single suited or 679T double suited however lack of nut flush draw playability in high SPR, OOP spot may make us tougher to play as we may hesitate to chk/raise flop for value on the flop such as 6c9dJd (with Qd3dKs6s). Would you talk a bit about your consideration?
Thanks Phil -
Adam
1) I don't expect better hands to fold, no. I'm mostly hoping to fold out hands with equity and/or hands that will push me off my hand, but more importantly...
"Also it's likely to get click-it-back against tough opponent"
I choose hands like JJxx in my c/r "bluff" range here because I can call a click-back profitably, with 2 (virtual) nut outs in addition to the ability to keep some weak hands in my c/r-call range to bluff later (ensuring I can still get value when I play my big hands this way).
2) KQ63ds is a hand I don't believe is very strong at all. Some people disagree with me and love these double suited, disconnected hands. I just don't like the idea of bloating the pot against a tough player with a hand that very rarely nails boards.
Just a quick question early on in the video when Sauce limps the button and we check AAJ6r flop came K98r. it went check/check and the turn was the 8 completing rainbow.
You opt to bet here for value but from watching part 1 of this series you mentioned about betting hands on the turn that could potentially have a lot of rivers we'd have to check on and put in a tough spot.
In this case seems like a lot of cards can make us check. Is the reason for betting because Sauce's limp, check back flop range should be much weaker than pfr, flop check back range?
Here, I could get him to VB AK, on brick rivers, but that's about it.
Sauce is countering everyone else's turn betting frequency by raising turns more than anyone else is right now.
1) At 5:30 you mention that on 10s3s2d you would give up on the turn with 3rd nut blocker, but how often OR are you bluffing the river if he checks the turn and a brick on the river comes off? Do you think he has enough overpairs, one pair, weak two pairs (which decided to give up) or some straight draws which missed that you should try to bluff him off on the river (versus his calling range of flushes and straights and maybe hero call with sets?)?
2) Also, in Sauce's position, do you think he should bet a decent amount of time as a bluff/merge with hands like QJ105, KKXX, 45XX, 23XX ? This is because I often bet the turn against aggressive regs b/c they seem to CR nut fds and other FDs + pair/gutty/OE everytime so their CC range tends to contain less flush draws.
3) And if you CR this flop with a wrap or 10-2, is it good to turn your hand into a bluff a decent amount of the time?? And how often are you folding two pairs OTT and weak flushes to 2 barrels ? (which is why I usually donk out with my weak fds + pairs/gutty)... But I guess it won't be transparent until they realize it...
4) At around 8:30 mark, you CR 933 with JJ47hh, how often are you CR'ing this in HU match vs in a 6max game CO/BTN vs BB (hero)? And whats the plan if you decide to CC this? You mention a hand like QJ910, is this a hand where you CC and try to bluff the river sometimes?
Thx
thx =]
I'm not sure I understand the question about folding the turn. Do you mean how often do I c/r, check, and fold 2pr on the turn or flushes to turn and river bets? If so, the answer is, it depends (sorry but it's the right answer... every opponent is different), but I often will be betting the turn with 2pr.
QJT9, I like either decision, raise or call. I would definitely sometimes c/c and bluff rivers. JJ works out better than QJT9 for c/r in my opinion because even though 9xxx has a blocker, when you hit your hand with JJ, you have much more in the way of implied odds.
You CR 10c5c7s, and talked about barreling off, is this a spot where u fire once and hope he folds all two pairs on the turn (can't have sets too often cause he might/should have raised your flop CR) or do you fire river as well to make him fold small-medium flushes and stubborn tp or 2p+weak flushes?
What is your play in Illari's spot on the last hand of the video. (He has T876 on QT7hh facing the pfr's pot bet with one play to act behind). Seems like a spot where he should be folding since he is likely flipping at best with pfr and can be crushed when sauce has a hand he can go with.
Hey Phil,
on the last hand do you always jam it on these flops against two players with so much money in the pot?
I just don't really feel confident jamming it in multiway against draws, two pairs and rarely sets but I guess it's part of plo.
I just recently transitioned from NLHE to PLO since I find NLHE kinda robotic and boring, what's the point of playing if you hate it right?
Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it
Hey Phil,
At 20:36 on the top left you say that you have seen sauce c/r hands like J6,J8. Then you said but probably not J9. What is the difference between J6,J8 and J9? Would you say that you would rather just keep J9 in you c/c range since it is a good bluff catcher and also that he might expect you to start betting hands like J6,J8 for value?
Also if you were in sauce's spot and c/r J6,J8 would you bet for value on some blank rivers or most just be c/ bluff catching with those types of hands?
I assume also that as an adjustment toward someone c/r turn with those types of hands that you have to start checking back flop more with strong hands and in turn be willing to 3 bet bluff/play back more in these spots. It seems like you could also potentially widen your bet/calling range on the turn and be able to bluff/value bet rivers appropriatley.
Hi Phil.
In this video was pot, when you was on SB with 52s69, Sauce limp, Ilari over limp and you fold. Dont you think its would be profitable to call there? Only $200 in 1729. On BB was gus with only 8k, maby that reason why you fold?
I felt you got through a lot more hands in this video, as you wished to. I also found it slightly more engaging.
I cant find the first part of this video :(
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