Mistake Hunting: $25/$50 HU PLO Zoom (part 2)
Posted by Phil Galfond
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Great video.
19.20 Does make sense to triple barrel since we don't block spades and in tough spot against big bet? Do you expect to face check or small bet often?
Thanks! I don't expect to face a lot of small bets, but I do expect to face a lot of checks from 1 pair hands (often with a marginal draw).
I think a triple barrel makes a lot of sense for the reasons you mentioned, yeah. I tend to shy away from betting in spots like this where I don't expect a lot of FE and I put myself in an ugly spot when shoved on, which will happen somewhat often, but I do need some bluffing hands to barrel through with and this is a good candidate!
You raised a good point here. Maybe we need excatly AKQ9 no spade in order to barrel off, just in case we get shoved on OTT we can call, but this hand probably should be folded and we lose a lot of equity.
On the other hand, what if we have same hand with spades.. And we pot the turn and river is blank. We probably give up with those hands.
Or do we try to check-shove the turn ?
porshy yeah, we likely want to give up with the AKQss hands, although we could maybe bluff 4x or 6x rivers with them.
The idea of "giving up equity" is definitely something that we all overvalue, though. If I bet the turn and can have a 0EV fold with one hand and a barely +EV call with a draw, the outcome is nearly the same. Now, the draw could have more value when we don't bet, sure, but it also has more value when we bet and are only called.
" If I bet the turn and can have a 0EV fold with one hand and a barely +EV call with a draw, the outcome is nearly the same. "
Its the difference between breakeven player and winning player ? :)
Half joke aside, I get your point. I guess this is spot for solver since its kind a better in theory if we barrel off lower equity hands. Being lower equity also means they unblock draws that oponent can have, making river bluff more succesfull.
Great stuff!
Thank you!
Phil what are your thoughts on your opponent’s flop play min 24 left table. Looks like he has 7 hi and a big wrap on the flop vs a block cbet, do you think he should be raising the flop?
I like his call. The only hand he's doing poorly against equity-wise happens to make up a lot of my flop get-it-in range (flush draws), so I don't think he needs to start bluffing just yet. He's got position and 2 more streets to find good bluffing opportunities if he ends up with 7 hi.
Minute 8, would love some more detail on why you feel it is optimal to slow-play most of your under-fulls other than letting OP turn back door draws. Vrs range BD draws have to be a very small % of his continuing range on the turn, given that A) he has to have a combo with a BD draw, B) has to hit the BD draw then C) choose to continue barreling with it on a paired board. My concern with slow-playing too often oop in these spots is that we often allow Qxxx that doesn't improve to get away with only firing one more street, where I think raising gets stacks in on the turn the majority of the time. I think this is especially true when A) the bottom full is this small given that (almost) all danglers to the queen will be overs and B) we unblock the A/K kickers that op will happily be stacking off with on the flop or turn. Against a hand like Kq10/10 the wasted potential value by slow playing and risking a check back on the river seems more significant than inducing from back door draws that got there on the turn.Is this too much of a 6max line of thinking where in reality a Q essentially always gets it in at this SPR HU?
I also feel like we lose visibility with each additional street here, so part of my reason for not wanting to slow play as often may come from the lack of being as confident where I'm at as the hand progresses vrs knowing I can get it on happily on the flop without making a mistake
Great question, Thallo! I think that by discussing backdoor draws and range protection, I emphasized the secondary points without touching on the primary one. These are a few good things that can happen when slowplaying an underfull, but the main reason that I just call here is because of how my equity looks against the different parts of his range.
If I raise, I only get significant action from trips. If I call, I keep in his bluffs in a spot that most of my range can be quite uncomfortable defending on.
These are extremely rough ranges but to illustrate the point:
We're only pushing a 56/44 equity edge against Qx, so narrowing his range to just that doesn't exactly print money for us.
The rest of his raising range has 8% equity against us. I'd like to get another bet (or two) out of some of these hands.
Your points (low visibility, losing action from some Qx) are good ones, but I think they're outweighed by the equity gap between his folding and continuing range.
I love theese videos Phil. I am studying the "designing an exploitative game plan" video was there only one of those? I cant find more than one. That was awesome!
Thanks, kalasjnikov! Yeah, I stopped that series at one, unfortunately. It took me about 20 hours to make that video and it seemed to be no more popular than videos like this one. With all the work on my plate, I decided not to continue. I'm glad you enjoyed it! I thought it would be a big hit, which is why I spent so much time on it.
Somehow I have never watched this video. Thank you so much for mentioning it here. Phil Galfond as far as no more popular goes....it has 47 likes for whatever that's worth!
Phil great video. Would really like some 6 max before the WSOP. Also would u consider reviewing the Run it Once PAD sessions? I would like to hear what you think of the other RIO pros play since I don’t think PLO was their main game. TY and good luck this summer
Thank you! And good idea about reviewing the RIO PAD sessions! I don't know why I hadn't already gotten started on that.
I don't have a lot of 6max footage of my own right now, so maybe that would be a good alternative.
Phil, i have a question for you. After having studied "designing an exploitative gameplan" i was attempting to gameplan myself using HEM2. How are you able to filter for folding river after having called turn and folding river after having stabbed turn after flop went check-check? Im not able to find this info anywhere. I have studied a ton of videos deeply after becoming a RIO member, but this is the video where Your thoughts on poker comes across best in my opinion. Would love to hear more about gameplanning from you.
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