Ty Jenn - it was really fun to see Pineapple played.....I didn't realize that you got to move around the cards from each draw and get a discard. For some reason I thought you had to set each card individually which would be really hard.
Think that playing one table giving you more time to think and discuss your choices and also comment on the other player is good but I haven't really played much so maybe good players would prefer the 2 tables.
It would be great to see some hands broken down with the maths to understand that part better.
Hi Jen a little critique please don’t take it personal.
First i want to apologize for my not so good english, this is my best effort.
On 17:20 while you talk about your opponent's hand of AhQh4c6c6s you happen to know the standard way of setting the hand,what makes you believe you know what’s standard,nobody can prove that. This is a very common spot, ill play that hand different from “standard" all the time and i think I’m wright but i don’t know whats optimal. I will play
Q
A4
66
and I won’t like the other option. My reasoning is fear from the unknown,cz I’m of position and I want a live kicker with my pair,so I’m gonna wait to see my opponent's hand before i take a kicker with my pair in that spot. I like a big kicker better to have a viable option to make 2 pair 2 pair when I happen to miss my ace on the next draw, some other times i will hit a pair on next draw make two pair on the bottom and make my hand supper strong, with the “standard" set up I won't know what to do with any pair from 22-JJ exclude 44 and 66 if I happen to hit them on the next draw.I will have to take them on my bottom hand and cap my bottom hand to 2 pair therefore caping the whole hand to a very weak one.
Other times when i get no help on second draw I can direct the hand to a 2 pair 2pair draw with the 2 pair AA option still open. I think my set up dominates the other one
but i could be wrong, so I vote we don’t know yet what’s optimal,nobody does.
I think when we see something that every body does we should not assume that that is the optimal play,cz sometimes everybody is wrong,especially poker players whoo usually are prone to copping and some times bad in math, some of them try to make comparisons of this game with poker and there is very little in common,cz this game looks closer to chess than it is to poker. chess players appear to be stronger players in this game, poker players usually get crushed.(sorry poker players I’m one).
On your next video please tell us something about ofcp, chess and poker comparisons, it could be of great help to many people in examining the nature of the beast, so teach us the game from the chess player’s perspective some times please.
I got other spots that i don’t agree with the play but i would have to make long comments to try to make my point, and i’m scared that i could be way off so ill wait and see what other people think before.
So please comment if you find mistakes with my reasoning.
Thank you very much!
I don't know that many chessplayers who are into Open Face, though I agree they'd take to it well.
As a counter, chess doesn't have much computation (the math aspect is more geometry), and OFC has a lot. Doing math ingame in an OFC hand is very similar to calculating your equity vs. a range in a NLHE spot and not at all like solving a chess problem.
A related question is, "Why aren't chessplayers even better at NLHE, particularly live NL?" In chess, exploitative strategies are limited, and in this way, OFC is very similar indeed.
As for your concrete question, I agree with you A4/66 is better, particularly because of the wheel draw. Though with the queen up top, I don't hate his set (bc he really wants to pair the ace, not the four).
Hi Jen here is another spot on 28:20 KKJ draw I like better Kh on bottom for the immediate flush and K up top for some reasons
1. making flush we immediately qualify
2. our flush will win the bottom very often with J kicker if our opponent makes his flush
3 we are not necessary giving up on fl there is still KAAAQQ unaccounted for though our chances are not great,our final goal is not fl,is getting more points, even though that seems very obvious people look to forget and chase fl more than justified.
But no one has the wright way proved yet,I will be very curious to know if you can solve this spot mathematically.
thanks
On 50:44 K up top looks risky since a 6 is gone is gonna be hard to make better than KK on the middle to make our hand look good, is this the common way to play a K in that spot between high stakes players? Has anybody proven that to be the better way?
sry to many questions thanks
On 54:00 though we don’t have a easy hand starting with a 3 got shot straight on the bottom is not very appealing for some reasons
1 our hand is capped to straight on the bottom therefore easy to beat setting up scoop scenarios.
2 our straight is not easy to make either since it is gut shot
It looks like we chasing fl giving up a lot in the process.
7/104/A8 looks safe with all the options open.
7/A8/104 if we wanna gamble a little , on both these options we still have fl possibilities
there is still a ton of high cards yet to come, though our main goal is to win more points fl should be a tool not the goal itself. I don’t know the wright way either so who knows?
There are a lot of other spots where i respect your moves and i think your video
is of great value, there are things to learn for everybody so thank you very much for that.
Hi Jenn: Wanted to leave another thank you.....I signed up for Tonybet and played the freeroll today which was so much fun....I made some really rookie errors and fouled a couple of times just in the excitement of playing this type of mtt.....then I made a couple of monsters got Fantasyland and huge scores to jump way up. Unfortunately after that I got too gambly chasing that rush and crashed and burned. All for free! I see now I should not have been so agro with a big stack and played safe because people in these freerolls will foul or maybe not maximize their hands. Don't hand them free chips.
I have to go back and rewatch your vids and make notes because more than a few times I didn't know what to do and had trouble with the basic odds of setting my hands usually in the 2nd or 3rd draw
Anyone who is interested in playing OFC should definitely reg and check it out. I think I'll deposit through Neteller so I can play some cash games which start at just a few cents per point. Always more fun playing for something then playing a bot for play money
I'm so glad to hear! Keep us posted and if you encounter and particularly tricky spots, post in the Open Face thread. I'm particularly looking for more three-handed spots to analyze because that will be the focus on my next vid. GL!
Hi Jen,
Really interesting videos!
I had some fun with a friend with the old Open Face Chinese version but Pineapple seems like even more fun.
Off to Tonybet I go!
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Ty Jenn - it was really fun to see Pineapple played.....I didn't realize that you got to move around the cards from each draw and get a discard. For some reason I thought you had to set each card individually which would be really hard.
Think that playing one table giving you more time to think and discuss your choices and also comment on the other player is good but I haven't really played much so maybe good players would prefer the 2 tables.
It would be great to see some hands broken down with the maths to understand that part better.
Hey! Thanks! The earlier version of Open Face was more like what you're describing, but very few play that now.
Most of my videos are much more math heavy so you may want to check them out.
Hi Jen a little critique please don’t take it personal.
First i want to apologize for my not so good english, this is my best effort.
On 17:20 while you talk about your opponent's hand of AhQh4c6c6s you happen to know the standard way of setting the hand,what makes you believe you know what’s standard,nobody can prove that. This is a very common spot, ill play that hand different from “standard" all the time and i think I’m wright but i don’t know whats optimal. I will play
Q
A4
66
and I won’t like the other option. My reasoning is fear from the unknown,cz I’m of position and I want a live kicker with my pair,so I’m gonna wait to see my opponent's hand before i take a kicker with my pair in that spot. I like a big kicker better to have a viable option to make 2 pair 2 pair when I happen to miss my ace on the next draw, some other times i will hit a pair on next draw make two pair on the bottom and make my hand supper strong, with the “standard" set up I won't know what to do with any pair from 22-JJ exclude 44 and 66 if I happen to hit them on the next draw.I will have to take them on my bottom hand and cap my bottom hand to 2 pair therefore caping the whole hand to a very weak one.
Other times when i get no help on second draw I can direct the hand to a 2 pair 2pair draw with the 2 pair AA option still open. I think my set up dominates the other one
but i could be wrong, so I vote we don’t know yet what’s optimal,nobody does.
I think when we see something that every body does we should not assume that that is the optimal play,cz sometimes everybody is wrong,especially poker players whoo usually are prone to copping and some times bad in math, some of them try to make comparisons of this game with poker and there is very little in common,cz this game looks closer to chess than it is to poker. chess players appear to be stronger players in this game, poker players usually get crushed.(sorry poker players I’m one).
On your next video please tell us something about ofcp, chess and poker comparisons, it could be of great help to many people in examining the nature of the beast, so teach us the game from the chess player’s perspective some times please.
I got other spots that i don’t agree with the play but i would have to make long comments to try to make my point, and i’m scared that i could be way off so ill wait and see what other people think before.
So please comment if you find mistakes with my reasoning.
Thank you very much!
I don't know that many chessplayers who are into Open Face, though I agree they'd take to it well.
As a counter, chess doesn't have much computation (the math aspect is more geometry), and OFC has a lot. Doing math ingame in an OFC hand is very similar to calculating your equity vs. a range in a NLHE spot and not at all like solving a chess problem.
A related question is, "Why aren't chessplayers even better at NLHE, particularly live NL?" In chess, exploitative strategies are limited, and in this way, OFC is very similar indeed.
As for your concrete question, I agree with you A4/66 is better, particularly because of the wheel draw. Though with the queen up top, I don't hate his set (bc he really wants to pair the ace, not the four).
Hi Jen here is another spot on 28:20 KKJ draw I like better Kh on bottom for the immediate flush and K up top for some reasons
1. making flush we immediately qualify
2. our flush will win the bottom very often with J kicker if our opponent makes his flush
3 we are not necessary giving up on fl there is still KAAAQQ unaccounted for though our chances are not great,our final goal is not fl,is getting more points, even though that seems very obvious people look to forget and chase fl more than justified.
But no one has the wright way proved yet,I will be very curious to know if you can solve this spot mathematically.
thanks
On 50:44 K up top looks risky since a 6 is gone is gonna be hard to make better than KK on the middle to make our hand look good, is this the common way to play a K in that spot between high stakes players? Has anybody proven that to be the better way?
sry to many questions thanks
On 54:00 though we don’t have a easy hand starting with a 3 got shot straight on the bottom is not very appealing for some reasons
1 our hand is capped to straight on the bottom therefore easy to beat setting up scoop scenarios.
2 our straight is not easy to make either since it is gut shot
It looks like we chasing fl giving up a lot in the process.
7/104/A8 looks safe with all the options open.
7/A8/104 if we wanna gamble a little , on both these options we still have fl possibilities
there is still a ton of high cards yet to come, though our main goal is to win more points fl should be a tool not the goal itself. I don’t know the wright way either so who knows?
There are a lot of other spots where i respect your moves and i think your video
is of great value, there are things to learn for everybody so thank you very much for that.
Hi Jenn: Wanted to leave another thank you.....I signed up for Tonybet and played the freeroll today which was so much fun....I made some really rookie errors and fouled a couple of times just in the excitement of playing this type of mtt.....then I made a couple of monsters got Fantasyland and huge scores to jump way up. Unfortunately after that I got too gambly chasing that rush and crashed and burned. All for free! I see now I should not have been so agro with a big stack and played safe because people in these freerolls will foul or maybe not maximize their hands. Don't hand them free chips.
I have to go back and rewatch your vids and make notes because more than a few times I didn't know what to do and had trouble with the basic odds of setting my hands usually in the 2nd or 3rd draw
Anyone who is interested in playing OFC should definitely reg and check it out. I think I'll deposit through Neteller so I can play some cash games which start at just a few cents per point. Always more fun playing for something then playing a bot for play money
I'm so glad to hear! Keep us posted and if you encounter and particularly tricky spots, post in the Open Face thread. I'm particularly looking for more three-handed spots to analyze because that will be the focus on my next vid. GL!
Hi Jen,
Really interesting videos!
I had some fun with a friend with the old Open Face Chinese version but Pineapple seems like even more fun.
Off to Tonybet I go!
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