Nathan,
Very nice video. Really enjoy this format getting to see all/most hands dealt with your analysis and commentary. Really look forward to the next one. Great job.
Love to hear the positive feedback, the intent was to showcase 100% of hands but felt that showing a 9992 fold time after time would eat up too much time and takeaway from the real analysis of hands played. I’ll still be keeping in “close” folds moving forward but want to provide as much value as possible throughout the course
2:30 If the ace wasn't suited is this still an open? It seems a bit weak without it.
6:40 from everything I have studied on plo8/big o this hand seems absolutely horrible to play all the way around especially from ep. I understand you want board coverage and it is during the reentry but you have no low possibility, all flushes will be weak, and having a 9 in any hi lo game is not going to create strong hands. I wouldn't play it in tourney at any stage or cash. Am I looking at that the wrong way?
15:30 What is your opinion on just calling flop in deeper stacked spots with vulnerable one way hands on wet boards in order to play for a safe turn then putting the money in?
43:05 akt6. This seems like a weak hand to call with given our low side is marginal at best and our suit is non nut. Given these properties, wouldn't the hand actually be better heads up where we have more live draws rather than multiway?
I feel like given the later position of the raiser i would rather 3bet iso. If the raise were from utg I would fold.
Oof! Taken me a bit of time to get back to you on this one due to the extensive nature of it, I'll do my best to answer as much as possible.
2:30 - without a suited ace this is absolutely a fold, reduces the play-ability considerably. Non-suited ace it would be raiseable from the BTN only primarily as a steal with an ace blocker and some post flop potential.
6:40 - First off it's important to understand that Plo8 and Big O are very separate games even though they seem almost exactly the same, the stack off thresholds are night and day. Hopefully once I wrap up this course I'll make some Big O content. That being said, this hand is only an open here due as we are willing to gamble during the re-entry phase of the tournament. It is going to be very difficult for us to get the money in bad post flop as we will typically either hit a set or we will fold for minimal damage, there is potential to get trapped by making a lower flush however that can be mitigated by hand reading such as you saw in this exact hand where we identified through his bet sizing that he likely does not have the nut flush but rather the nut flush blocker. Interesting to note, a single 9 in your hand is bad as it doesn't play well on either the low or the high (obviously), but a pair of 9's when there is semi-significant action is more powerful that you would think - why? Because a lot of people aren't putting in money holding a 9 pre-flop so there is actually a greater density of 9s remaining in the deck and thus a greater chance of flopping a set.
15:30 - great question, and that's a play you'll see me make throughout the tournament, however this is not the spot for it! First off, stacks to pot ratio is pretty shallow when you look at the amount that I can check raise and what's remaining behind. If I could CR and there was still a 2-4 SPR moving forward then that would be a great time for what you are suggesting, as it when I CR there is less than 1SPR remaining on the turn; better to apply pressure and get max value from draws now. Additionally, there are not a lot of turn cards that are advantageous for getting the money in, any 234578 completes the low and requires us to play cautiously as we can be easily getting free rolled, any T J or K completes Broadway and we will either see the action slow down or potentially be behind, so our only completely safe Get It In cards on turn are 6 9 Q or J/Kc.
43:05 - First off it's important to note that we are effectively the BTN this hand due to the short stack on the BTN, it allows us to play a slightly wider range that normal. The hand in general plays very straightforwardly, we aren't really trying to capitalize on the A6 for the low component almost ever, it's more of a back up component than a main one, so what are we trying to utilize from the hand? Mainly the high side, diamonds, 3 Broadways, and position. We also aren't trying to bloat the pot as we have a hand that plays decently post flop against any open raise but when we 3! we will condense his calling range to a portion of hands that have us crushed. I'll be talking through this in coming videos but a lot of people 3! the wrong class of hands as they play well against opening raises but poorly against hands that continue through a call or a raise against a 3! thus turning the hands essentially into a pre flop bluff.
Hope I was able to do a decent job at talking things through and answering your questions, look forward to hearing more in the future!
You absolutely helped me out a lot. You are presenting a different side to what I have studied in the past, which primarily revolved around cash games. I really appreciate your thorough response!
More plo8 and big o content would be greatly appreciated.
Great to hear, glad you’re getting value out of it! High low games in general, hell, mix games in general, play wildly different in tournaments than in cash games; you can’t auto bet or auto get it in in spots that make sense in a cash game environment where you are exclusively playing for chips and equity - these videos will definitely help how you think about the game overall but is geared towards tournament play only and a lot of the principles will be much more effective in that environment than in a cash game one.
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Nathan,
Very nice video. Really enjoy this format getting to see all/most hands dealt with your analysis and commentary. Really look forward to the next one. Great job.
Thanks Nathan
Love to hear the positive feedback, the intent was to showcase 100% of hands but felt that showing a 9992 fold time after time would eat up too much time and takeaway from the real analysis of hands played. I’ll still be keeping in “close” folds moving forward but want to provide as much value as possible throughout the course
Looking forward to the rest of the series!
2:30 If the ace wasn't suited is this still an open? It seems a bit weak without it.
6:40 from everything I have studied on plo8/big o this hand seems absolutely horrible to play all the way around especially from ep. I understand you want board coverage and it is during the reentry but you have no low possibility, all flushes will be weak, and having a 9 in any hi lo game is not going to create strong hands. I wouldn't play it in tourney at any stage or cash. Am I looking at that the wrong way?
15:30 What is your opinion on just calling flop in deeper stacked spots with vulnerable one way hands on wet boards in order to play for a safe turn then putting the money in?
43:05 akt6. This seems like a weak hand to call with given our low side is marginal at best and our suit is non nut. Given these properties, wouldn't the hand actually be better heads up where we have more live draws rather than multiway?
I feel like given the later position of the raiser i would rather 3bet iso. If the raise were from utg I would fold.
Thanks!
Oof! Taken me a bit of time to get back to you on this one due to the extensive nature of it, I'll do my best to answer as much as possible.
2:30 - without a suited ace this is absolutely a fold, reduces the play-ability considerably. Non-suited ace it would be raiseable from the BTN only primarily as a steal with an ace blocker and some post flop potential.
6:40 - First off it's important to understand that Plo8 and Big O are very separate games even though they seem almost exactly the same, the stack off thresholds are night and day. Hopefully once I wrap up this course I'll make some Big O content. That being said, this hand is only an open here due as we are willing to gamble during the re-entry phase of the tournament. It is going to be very difficult for us to get the money in bad post flop as we will typically either hit a set or we will fold for minimal damage, there is potential to get trapped by making a lower flush however that can be mitigated by hand reading such as you saw in this exact hand where we identified through his bet sizing that he likely does not have the nut flush but rather the nut flush blocker. Interesting to note, a single 9 in your hand is bad as it doesn't play well on either the low or the high (obviously), but a pair of 9's when there is semi-significant action is more powerful that you would think - why? Because a lot of people aren't putting in money holding a 9 pre-flop so there is actually a greater density of 9s remaining in the deck and thus a greater chance of flopping a set.
15:30 - great question, and that's a play you'll see me make throughout the tournament, however this is not the spot for it! First off, stacks to pot ratio is pretty shallow when you look at the amount that I can check raise and what's remaining behind. If I could CR and there was still a 2-4 SPR moving forward then that would be a great time for what you are suggesting, as it when I CR there is less than 1SPR remaining on the turn; better to apply pressure and get max value from draws now. Additionally, there are not a lot of turn cards that are advantageous for getting the money in, any 234578 completes the low and requires us to play cautiously as we can be easily getting free rolled, any T J or K completes Broadway and we will either see the action slow down or potentially be behind, so our only completely safe Get It In cards on turn are 6 9 Q or J/Kc.
43:05 - First off it's important to note that we are effectively the BTN this hand due to the short stack on the BTN, it allows us to play a slightly wider range that normal. The hand in general plays very straightforwardly, we aren't really trying to capitalize on the A6 for the low component almost ever, it's more of a back up component than a main one, so what are we trying to utilize from the hand? Mainly the high side, diamonds, 3 Broadways, and position. We also aren't trying to bloat the pot as we have a hand that plays decently post flop against any open raise but when we 3! we will condense his calling range to a portion of hands that have us crushed. I'll be talking through this in coming videos but a lot of people 3! the wrong class of hands as they play well against opening raises but poorly against hands that continue through a call or a raise against a 3! thus turning the hands essentially into a pre flop bluff.
Hope I was able to do a decent job at talking things through and answering your questions, look forward to hearing more in the future!
Thanks for another good vid Nathan! Look forward to the rest :)
Thanks Mx! Much more to come, long way to the FT!
You absolutely helped me out a lot. You are presenting a different side to what I have studied in the past, which primarily revolved around cash games. I really appreciate your thorough response!
More plo8 and big o content would be greatly appreciated.
Great to hear, glad you’re getting value out of it! High low games in general, hell, mix games in general, play wildly different in tournaments than in cash games; you can’t auto bet or auto get it in in spots that make sense in a cash game environment where you are exclusively playing for chips and equity - these videos will definitely help how you think about the game overall but is geared towards tournament play only and a lot of the principles will be much more effective in that environment than in a cash game one.
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