Nice video Todd. I think that if you are going to bet with the KTs hand on the turn you should bet somewhat close to 600 cuz it would give him a better price to jam or get tricky with his draws rather than betting smallish where he would prolly just peel and there are a ton of river cards that would make us uncomfortable. However, I REALLY love the idea of check raising, I feel that he's ALWAYS going to bet turn, either with made hands like 8 or T for protection and his draws or bluffs, so it makes a check jam the best play for maximizing value. Very nice unorthodox play Todd. Really love it
I agree that if you bet turn you should bet pretty big. I might go as large as 700-725 because I want to be able to triple barrel this board with a bunch of hands. It is going to suck to have to bet big and fold w/ some of our better draws, but a bunch of those are bet / calling anyways.
I think betting that is a fine line and maybe ideal against some opponents, but against someone stabbing too wide (and I think that's the majority), then I really like check jamming a bunch of our range here.
On the first hand, you said that you put him on a lot of straight draw like JT, if he check the turn and see a free card and 9 appears what are you doing? I suppose you never fold your set?
I think this second question helps to answer your first question. Basically there are too many draws / made hands that he can have that we can't worry about the times he has the exact one that beats us when we only have 2x pot left. No one specific draw coming in is ever going to be so good for his range that we can fold the top of ours.
Whether I would bet, check call, or check shove the river would depend a lot on specific river cards and my opponents tendencies. Its hard to evaluate each individual river (as even for a flush card our plays varies depending on the card) but I would never do anything that involved folding on the river.
Generally if the turn checks through I would think I would be betting (and calling) on almost any river card. He has too much Qx that snap calls a river bet to give a free showdown and a lot of the draws that hit or missed would have bet the turn. If he shoved over my river lead there are too many hands that may decide to bluff and worse made hands that may value cut themselves to ever consider folding.
Hey guys I just wanted to apologize for the short video. I was having some problems with my mic and we ended up having to scrap 2 of the hands because of bad audio. Those hands related to these hands and concepts a bit so I'll likely include them in my next (full-length) video.
First of all, I think when we are playning vs reg we should concern much more about how our hand looks like. I mean when we are on air in this spot - we are gonna barrel this turn a lot, cause its so good for our percieved range. And when we check it - we are very capped in the eyes of decent opposition (I mean we look like SD value a lot and most people wont choose to bluff us off it, unless its some very aggro specific opponent who can decide to bluff off AQ). Moreover we are paid pretty rarely OTR when playing bet-check-bet line (its hard to imagine decent reg pays us with TT-JJ and hardly ever with Qx, maybe only crying call with AQ). It's not line that regs (like you and other good ones) will try to take to bluff in general. So I think when we check this turn we dont look very air heavy- we look like TT-JJ, Qx, some Kx. Yeah she can try to bluff us from this range, but I dont feel its gonna happen enough of the time. I think its pretty likely that villian (again - decent one) will just check back his draws OTT and realise his equity for free when he sees we check to K and will take free card and just fold river missed and get paid when hits.
I'd better be more balanced here with my weak barreling range (FDs, OESD, gutshots etc) and play bet-bet-bet with my top set OTT and OTR and hope she will be stubborn with her likely Qx (againg - cause bet-bet-bet looks more bluffy in general than bet-check-bet). Even just in comparison with the last hand (KJo) when we hit our potential overcard OTT and double barrel it to fold out Qx or whatever. Same logic.
As for the problem with her draws OTT, I think when we bet she can either call or even shove turn in your face with FD or JT trying to apply maximum pressure on your AA, AK or just to fold out all of your draws.
And one more little point- may be its not that important but I would rather choose QQ than KK if I need to check some OTT, cause QQ block potential Qx bluffcatching hands he can call us with and KK dont.
BUT! checking turn with topset definitely has some merits :) Ultimately, we can protect this way our capped/weakish range of value hands (TT-JJ, AQ).
Ok I will try to clear things up a little bit about the KK hand.
I am going to want to have a checking range on that turn. It does not make much sense to bet QTs / TT / 87s on that turn and I would like to check them and bluff catch w/ some of my range, and try to get a cheap showdown and fold when I don't w/ some of my range. Generally it's good to protect my checking range here unless I plan to check fold every time I check, which doesn't seem great.
So there are some draws that go nicely in this check turn range, mainly draws that would be very sad to get shoved on if I bet the turn (like 76 FD and gutty). So I will check shove some of my hands. I also will want to have some value in that range (that I can check call or check shove) and I agree that QQ is the best hand to do this with (I said this in one take of the vid, not sure if its the one above). I think KQ is probably the second best hand to do this with, and KK probably the third best. Its good to slow play the hands that block hands she could call down with. It's also good to slow play hands with a lot of absolute strength because her range will have less equity (mainly because one pair can't beat me by making two pair).
I do agree I should be betting this turn quite a bit and I still will be. I have a ton of draws to bet, JT/FDs/and whatever gutters I decide to bluff. I still have a ton of strong hands (many more than my opponent) because I have a ton more Kx and more AA/KK/QQ/AK. I will bet most of my strong one pair on the turn and stack off with it. Then I will bet draws I am happy calling (AT fd for example, 89 pair and FD) and then bet fold hands that don't have as much equity (AJ / T9 gutty hands).
I think this is a good way to split my ranges and therefore I am v comfortable betting and checking w/ significant parts of my range on this turn.
Lastly, you say checking this turn caps our range. This is a good thing when we have KK and are actually not capped because our opponent is now basing their play off of incorrect assumptions! This is precisely why our opponent bet called AQ on the turn. If my opponent floated the flop w/ gutters (and they will!) then I absolutely expect them to bet on the turn a lot, if not the river. If the draws on this board in general had more equity I would likely agree with you, but there are a lot of low equity floats that our opponent will need to bet.
Nice vid, I thought you were very self aware when discussing the hands in not settling for the first conclusion that presented itself. One thing about the KK hand- you don't actually block IP's Kx flop floats because they all have the Kc in them, and you have the other two. You do block KQ and the other 2pairs though of course.
Hello Todd, I had not seen her videos yet, but I began to see and I'm really enjoying it! Very good and clear your thoughts, thank you. You do not make full HH?
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Nice video Todd. I think that if you are going to bet with the KTs hand on the turn you should bet somewhat close to 600 cuz it would give him a better price to jam or get tricky with his draws rather than betting smallish where he would prolly just peel and there are a ton of river cards that would make us uncomfortable. However, I REALLY love the idea of check raising, I feel that he's ALWAYS going to bet turn, either with made hands like 8 or T for protection and his draws or bluffs, so it makes a check jam the best play for maximizing value. Very nice unorthodox play Todd. Really love it
I agree that if you bet turn you should bet pretty big. I might go as large as 700-725 because I want to be able to triple barrel this board with a bunch of hands. It is going to suck to have to bet big and fold w/ some of our better draws, but a bunch of those are bet / calling anyways.
I think betting that is a fine line and maybe ideal against some opponents, but against someone stabbing too wide (and I think that's the majority), then I really like check jamming a bunch of our range here.
Thanks for the kind words.
On the first hand, you said that you put him on a lot of straight draw like JT, if he check the turn and see a free card and 9 appears what are you doing? I suppose you never fold your set?
same question for a flush draw
I think this second question helps to answer your first question. Basically there are too many draws / made hands that he can have that we can't worry about the times he has the exact one that beats us when we only have 2x pot left. No one specific draw coming in is ever going to be so good for his range that we can fold the top of ours.
Whether I would bet, check call, or check shove the river would depend a lot on specific river cards and my opponents tendencies. Its hard to evaluate each individual river (as even for a flush card our plays varies depending on the card) but I would never do anything that involved folding on the river.
Generally if the turn checks through I would think I would be betting (and calling) on almost any river card. He has too much Qx that snap calls a river bet to give a free showdown and a lot of the draws that hit or missed would have bet the turn. If he shoved over my river lead there are too many hands that may decide to bluff and worse made hands that may value cut themselves to ever consider folding.
Hey guys I just wanted to apologize for the short video. I was having some problems with my mic and we ended up having to scrap 2 of the hands because of bad audio. Those hands related to these hands and concepts a bit so I'll likely include them in my next (full-length) video.
hand#1 http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/camilakons/ so tough and desperate girls here in poker =\
Hi, Todd!
I dont agree with some points about hand#1 tbh.
First of all, I think when we are playning vs reg we should concern much more about how our hand looks like. I mean when we are on air in this spot - we are gonna barrel this turn a lot, cause its so good for our percieved range. And when we check it - we are very capped in the eyes of decent opposition (I mean we look like SD value a lot and most people wont choose to bluff us off it, unless its some very aggro specific opponent who can decide to bluff off AQ). Moreover we are paid pretty rarely OTR when playing bet-check-bet line (its hard to imagine decent reg pays us with TT-JJ and hardly ever with Qx, maybe only crying call with AQ). It's not line that regs (like you and other good ones) will try to take to bluff in general. So I think when we check this turn we dont look very air heavy- we look like TT-JJ, Qx, some Kx. Yeah she can try to bluff us from this range, but I dont feel its gonna happen enough of the time. I think its pretty likely that villian (again - decent one) will just check back his draws OTT and realise his equity for free when he sees we check to K and will take free card and just fold river missed and get paid when hits.
I'd better be more balanced here with my weak barreling range (FDs, OESD, gutshots etc) and play bet-bet-bet with my top set OTT and OTR and hope she will be stubborn with her likely Qx (againg - cause bet-bet-bet looks more bluffy in general than bet-check-bet). Even just in comparison with the last hand (KJo) when we hit our potential overcard OTT and double barrel it to fold out Qx or whatever. Same logic.
As for the problem with her draws OTT, I think when we bet she can either call or even shove turn in your face with FD or JT trying to apply maximum pressure on your AA, AK or just to fold out all of your draws.
And one more little point- may be its not that important but I would rather choose QQ than KK if I need to check some OTT, cause QQ block potential Qx bluffcatching hands he can call us with and KK dont.
BUT! checking turn with topset definitely has some merits :) Ultimately, we can protect this way our capped/weakish range of value hands (TT-JJ, AQ).
Ok I will try to clear things up a little bit about the KK hand.
I am going to want to have a checking range on that turn. It does not make much sense to bet QTs / TT / 87s on that turn and I would like to check them and bluff catch w/ some of my range, and try to get a cheap showdown and fold when I don't w/ some of my range. Generally it's good to protect my checking range here unless I plan to check fold every time I check, which doesn't seem great.
So there are some draws that go nicely in this check turn range, mainly draws that would be very sad to get shoved on if I bet the turn (like 76 FD and gutty). So I will check shove some of my hands. I also will want to have some value in that range (that I can check call or check shove) and I agree that QQ is the best hand to do this with (I said this in one take of the vid, not sure if its the one above). I think KQ is probably the second best hand to do this with, and KK probably the third best. Its good to slow play the hands that block hands she could call down with. It's also good to slow play hands with a lot of absolute strength because her range will have less equity (mainly because one pair can't beat me by making two pair).
I do agree I should be betting this turn quite a bit and I still will be. I have a ton of draws to bet, JT/FDs/and whatever gutters I decide to bluff. I still have a ton of strong hands (many more than my opponent) because I have a ton more Kx and more AA/KK/QQ/AK. I will bet most of my strong one pair on the turn and stack off with it. Then I will bet draws I am happy calling (AT fd for example, 89 pair and FD) and then bet fold hands that don't have as much equity (AJ / T9 gutty hands).
I think this is a good way to split my ranges and therefore I am v comfortable betting and checking w/ significant parts of my range on this turn.
Lastly, you say checking this turn caps our range. This is a good thing when we have KK and are actually not capped because our opponent is now basing their play off of incorrect assumptions! This is precisely why our opponent bet called AQ on the turn. If my opponent floated the flop w/ gutters (and they will!) then I absolutely expect them to bet on the turn a lot, if not the river. If the draws on this board in general had more equity I would likely agree with you, but there are a lot of low equity floats that our opponent will need to bet.
good :) thanks!
Hey Todd,
Nice vid, I thought you were very self aware when discussing the hands in not settling for the first conclusion that presented itself. One thing about the KK hand- you don't actually block IP's Kx flop floats because they all have the Kc in them, and you have the other two. You do block KQ and the other 2pairs though of course.
Thanks Ben. I've been really enjoying your videos and appreciate you commenting on mine.
Hello Todd, I had not seen her videos yet, but I began to see and I'm really enjoying it! Very good and clear your thoughts, thank you. You do not make full HH?
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