Great vid JP. Couple questions regarding first few hands
Hand 1: In level 1 playing 400bb deep why do you 2.5x instead of 3x/4x? Example being hand #1 when you raise AQ to 125. I would think bigger sizing this deep would be optimal.
Also related to hand 1 you speak of bb 3b hands like AT/AJ. Playing 400bb deep don't you think the majority of players shouldn't have much of a 3b range out of the bb?? Especially vs a competent reg such as yourself.
Hand 2: You say you'd rather have 78 instead of 2 black QQ b/c of blocker effects. Doesn't holding 7h in your hand block a lot of his bluff combos? Would you rather block someone's value combos or bluffing combos here?
Hand 3: Ad5d we decide to call off a 27bb shove needing 45% equity. Vs a range of pairs (excluding 99+), Ax, Broadways and some sc's we have approximately 50% equity. What considerations come into play when deciding how big of an edge you will take (or do you not pass on any edge)? I'm assuming if there were ICM considerations this would be a fold. If you're table were on the fishier side would you pass?
nice vid, question about the KQs hand min 23. You say you would prefer a smaller 3bet to induce more calls which I generelly agree with - but what do you do against a shove then? Now you are getting a worse price and he will have a tighter range so I guess fold? That would obviously be very painful so I would just call preflop
@tinyelvis58,
I'll usually open to a minimum of 3x this deep from basically every position except button there, and ill do it sometimes form button if both blinds are tough.
I think not having a 3bet range vs button would be a mistake and would allow IP player to benefit too much with the weaker parts of his range. Being 400bb deep, IP is limited in how much he can 4bet and he will have to defend at a certain minimal frequency vs the 3bet or else he'll be exploited. We can't be scared to play deep stacked pots OOP or else we let button realize too much equity with his weaker holdings if we don't have a 3 betting range
The 87o hand, i do block some of his bluff combinations, but removing a quarter of his straights and his flopped two pairs is going to have a much bigger impact than blocking just a quarter of his 7x bluffs (there are going to be a lot of those, as well as 6x'es). The profitability of our river call and the impact of our blockers also depends on what villain does with his turned Jx on the river.
(the EV of calling QQ will clearly be greater than 87o if villain bets JTo for a third street,... feels thin to me)
Hand 3: if ICM were a huge concern, i'd expect BB to be doing less inducing and more shoving meaning his shoving range would be stronger and as a cEV standpoint A5dd would be much closer and perhaps not a call, so ya with ICM I'll fold it, it depends how much I think BB shoves really. I will pass up on these thin spots in weaker tournaments sure but not in a situation where we're nearing the FT, where I'm more likely to be facing tougher competition soon and also where it's not a guarantee that I'll find a better spot, here tbh the a5dd i think I mentionned in the video im not quite sure, it makes a slight profit vs the type of opponent who's going shove a lot but if my assumption is any wrong it will become a fold so passing up that spot would not have been a mistake in my opinion but I think folding a8s would clearly be one.
Thanks JP. To follow up my previous questions real quickly:
Hand 1: What's your rationale for 3x vs tough blinds and 2.5x vs fish? I would think this deep I'd feel pretty comfortable building a bigger pot vs fish (possibly even 4x) and giving tough blinds less incentive to 3b (potentially making it smaller than 3x based on your rationale). Can you expand on your logic please?
Hand 2: When we hold 87h we block 12/36 2 pair combos on the river (1/3) and 4/16 flopped strts. So we block 16/52 value hands or 30%. If we hold 2 black queens he now has more hand combos w/ a bare 7 and 48 combos w/ a 7h. If he bluffs w/ half of just his 7h hands (24 combos) on top of value owning himself w/ top pair (more 8x combos), I'm having trouble seeing why we'd rather hold 7h8x vs 2 black Queens. I feel like when we're calling down and only beat bluffs, we'd rather not block his bluff combos and thin value combos. Am I looking at this in the wrong way?
Hand 3: Is ICM not a concern as we near the FT?
FYI, vs this range we have 50% -- AxTx-Ax2x,AxTy-Ax2y,KxQx-Kx9x,KxQy-KxTy,QxJx,JxTx,Tx9x,9x8x,88-22,8x7x.
Not trying to be combative at all here so please don't take this the wrong way. Just trying to have a healthy debate and get a better understanding of these spots. Appreciate the help.
@Jim Black
If i made it like 1525 and he shoved, i'd be getting around 1.4 to 1 on a call, so i need roughly 41.3% equity to continue. If I have him shoving a tighter range of
KK-22,ATs+,AJo+, and half the aces combos,
We have around 41.5% equity vs that range w/ KcQc which means we could still call after making a smaller 3bet in a situation where he's shoving stricly value hands and never any bluffs really. I think even if it had been a slightly** -ev call vs a 4bet shove, perhaps the increase in ev of our hand when we 3bet as opposed to calling is greater than the slight deficit situation we'd be in if facing a shove, but as it is I think 3 betting this hand vs most players is going to be better. Let me know if you disagree.
@tinyelvis
Any constructive debate is good it's the purpose of this comment section! So don't worry im glad you're questioning some of the content so we can discuss it.
Hand 1: my sizing is reflected by my range, vs weaker competition, i want to open wifer, therefore i size smaller to give a better price to my weaker holdings and (altho here it doesnt rly apply since we're unusually deep for a tournament) keeping a low SPR is good for IP.
Vs tougher competition, i open a stronger range therefore am oriented towards extracting as much value as I can w/ it and I raise bigger.
87o hand: when I say QQ isnt as good a call it's with the assumption that villain doesnt value bet river with worse than top pair here, in which case we want to have blockers to his value range, not having the 7h would be better here esp. since most players will isolate vs sb limp w suited hands in general so removing some combo flushes is probly worse for us than removing a lot of bis 7hx bluffs. Seems unlikely that villain bets a8/k8 on the river he blocks our 8x'es which would call here a lot which he beats and we'll have plenty of overpairs+JhX/JxYh+traps
A5dd: in a deep-structure tournament as the 320 6max closing in on two tables , and no payjump from 9 to 6 as well as being top heavy ICM will have an impact but certainly not as much (im less likely to 5b get in jacks for 50 bigs per example)
In this situation where I'm not really at risk if my assumption on his ranges are correct i don't see a reason to fold profitable calls, ill adjust by opening tighter if he shoves too much but until he stops ill have to defend these hands to prevent him from exploiting me. Also, at this stage of the 320, it's quite likely this guy was the shortest stack which means he's not going to be looking to pass up on profitable shove situations, unless we were in payjump situations/@ a FT and if many players had similar or shorter stacks than him. (That's basically when ICM will have a big impact on our overall strategy).
Thanks for your questions, again if there's more, don't be shy this process benefits each n everyone of us who takes a second to participate in the comments section.
Gl at the tables.
Jp
To go one step further on the A5 hand on the subject of not passing up profitable spots, with 41bb to start this hand if you lose you're knocked down to 14bb and your chances of winning and flexibility going forward are significantly hampered. All for at most 5% chip ev edge. I believe a lot of regs take these spots but am not 100% convinced it's correct.
You speak about calling the shove so as not to be exploited but are we really going to be in this spot, with these stack sizes/potions/etc against this villian often enough to where we will be exploited?? Additionally, we can be exploited the other way around as well by having villains jam tighter ranges including the top of their range knowing how light were calling.
I guess what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is what our tournament life is worth and how do we want to play so as to give ourselves the best chance of winning the tournament. Going from 41bb to 68bb puts us in a better spot but doesn't increase our chances of winning so much as our chances of losing are significantly increased if we lose the hand.
Hello, thanks for the vid. I see in general a 40 % cb also with draws and value hands. for my point "cash player" is hard to figurate the advantage of this size. Can you explain a little idea about your sizes in general pl. Ty
Great video overall JP, but 34mins in, the AA hand just made me confused. I would slamdunk call on the river as played taking your line, since many (and he apparently) shoves worse for value not expecting you to check turns with overpairs and we beat everything but the absolute top of his range, when alot of draws missed, but the turn decision was more interesting i think. From what you said in video you bet very polar on the turn (sets/JT for value) and a ton of semibluffs? I haven't counted combos but aren't you heavily overbluffing this spot with such a narrow valuebetrange? I would treat AA as clear value and bet it most of the time, but this made me think about it and i can see arguments for checking aswell. But since we have so many (semi)bluffs i would feel unbalanced not valuebetting AA.
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Great vid JP. Couple questions regarding first few hands
Hand 1: In level 1 playing 400bb deep why do you 2.5x instead of 3x/4x? Example being hand #1 when you raise AQ to 125. I would think bigger sizing this deep would be optimal.
Also related to hand 1 you speak of bb 3b hands like AT/AJ. Playing 400bb deep don't you think the majority of players shouldn't have much of a 3b range out of the bb?? Especially vs a competent reg such as yourself.
Hand 2: You say you'd rather have 78 instead of 2 black QQ b/c of blocker effects. Doesn't holding 7h in your hand block a lot of his bluff combos? Would you rather block someone's value combos or bluffing combos here?
Hand 3: Ad5d we decide to call off a 27bb shove needing 45% equity. Vs a range of pairs (excluding 99+), Ax, Broadways and some sc's we have approximately 50% equity. What considerations come into play when deciding how big of an edge you will take (or do you not pass on any edge)? I'm assuming if there were ICM considerations this would be a fold. If you're table were on the fishier side would you pass?
Thx for the help. Keep up the great work.
Hi Hopez,
nice vid, question about the KQs hand min 23. You say you would prefer a smaller 3bet to induce more calls which I generelly agree with - but what do you do against a shove then? Now you are getting a worse price and he will have a tighter range so I guess fold? That would obviously be very painful so I would just call preflop
@tinyelvis58,
I'll usually open to a minimum of 3x this deep from basically every position except button there, and ill do it sometimes form button if both blinds are tough.
I think not having a 3bet range vs button would be a mistake and would allow IP player to benefit too much with the weaker parts of his range. Being 400bb deep, IP is limited in how much he can 4bet and he will have to defend at a certain minimal frequency vs the 3bet or else he'll be exploited. We can't be scared to play deep stacked pots OOP or else we let button realize too much equity with his weaker holdings if we don't have a 3 betting range
The 87o hand, i do block some of his bluff combinations, but removing a quarter of his straights and his flopped two pairs is going to have a much bigger impact than blocking just a quarter of his 7x bluffs (there are going to be a lot of those, as well as 6x'es). The profitability of our river call and the impact of our blockers also depends on what villain does with his turned Jx on the river.
(the EV of calling QQ will clearly be greater than 87o if villain bets JTo for a third street,... feels thin to me)
Hand 3: if ICM were a huge concern, i'd expect BB to be doing less inducing and more shoving meaning his shoving range would be stronger and as a cEV standpoint A5dd would be much closer and perhaps not a call, so ya with ICM I'll fold it, it depends how much I think BB shoves really. I will pass up on these thin spots in weaker tournaments sure but not in a situation where we're nearing the FT, where I'm more likely to be facing tougher competition soon and also where it's not a guarantee that I'll find a better spot, here tbh the a5dd i think I mentionned in the video im not quite sure, it makes a slight profit vs the type of opponent who's going shove a lot but if my assumption is any wrong it will become a fold so passing up that spot would not have been a mistake in my opinion but I think folding a8s would clearly be one.
Thanks for your feedback!
Thanks JP. To follow up my previous questions real quickly:
Hand 1: What's your rationale for 3x vs tough blinds and 2.5x vs fish? I would think this deep I'd feel pretty comfortable building a bigger pot vs fish (possibly even 4x) and giving tough blinds less incentive to 3b (potentially making it smaller than 3x based on your rationale). Can you expand on your logic please?
Hand 2: When we hold 87h we block 12/36 2 pair combos on the river (1/3) and 4/16 flopped strts. So we block 16/52 value hands or 30%. If we hold 2 black queens he now has more hand combos w/ a bare 7 and 48 combos w/ a 7h. If he bluffs w/ half of just his 7h hands (24 combos) on top of value owning himself w/ top pair (more 8x combos), I'm having trouble seeing why we'd rather hold 7h8x vs 2 black Queens. I feel like when we're calling down and only beat bluffs, we'd rather not block his bluff combos and thin value combos. Am I looking at this in the wrong way?
Hand 3: Is ICM not a concern as we near the FT?
FYI, vs this range we have 50% -- AxTx-Ax2x,AxTy-Ax2y,KxQx-Kx9x,KxQy-KxTy,QxJx,JxTx,Tx9x,9x8x,88-22,8x7x.
Not trying to be combative at all here so please don't take this the wrong way. Just trying to have a healthy debate and get a better understanding of these spots. Appreciate the help.
@Jim Black
If i made it like 1525 and he shoved, i'd be getting around 1.4 to 1 on a call, so i need roughly 41.3% equity to continue. If I have him shoving a tighter range of
KK-22,ATs+,AJo+, and half the aces combos,
We have around 41.5% equity vs that range w/ KcQc which means we could still call after making a smaller 3bet in a situation where he's shoving stricly value hands and never any bluffs really. I think even if it had been a slightly** -ev call vs a 4bet shove, perhaps the increase in ev of our hand when we 3bet as opposed to calling is greater than the slight deficit situation we'd be in if facing a shove, but as it is I think 3 betting this hand vs most players is going to be better. Let me know if you disagree.
@tinyelvis
Any constructive debate is good it's the purpose of this comment section! So don't worry im glad you're questioning some of the content so we can discuss it.
Hand 1: my sizing is reflected by my range, vs weaker competition, i want to open wifer, therefore i size smaller to give a better price to my weaker holdings and (altho here it doesnt rly apply since we're unusually deep for a tournament) keeping a low SPR is good for IP.
Vs tougher competition, i open a stronger range therefore am oriented towards extracting as much value as I can w/ it and I raise bigger.
87o hand: when I say QQ isnt as good a call it's with the assumption that villain doesnt value bet river with worse than top pair here, in which case we want to have blockers to his value range, not having the 7h would be better here esp. since most players will isolate vs sb limp w suited hands in general so removing some combo flushes is probly worse for us than removing a lot of bis 7hx bluffs. Seems unlikely that villain bets a8/k8 on the river he blocks our 8x'es which would call here a lot which he beats and we'll have plenty of overpairs+JhX/JxYh+traps
A5dd: in a deep-structure tournament as the 320 6max closing in on two tables , and no payjump from 9 to 6 as well as being top heavy ICM will have an impact but certainly not as much (im less likely to 5b get in jacks for 50 bigs per example)
In this situation where I'm not really at risk if my assumption on his ranges are correct i don't see a reason to fold profitable calls, ill adjust by opening tighter if he shoves too much but until he stops ill have to defend these hands to prevent him from exploiting me. Also, at this stage of the 320, it's quite likely this guy was the shortest stack which means he's not going to be looking to pass up on profitable shove situations, unless we were in payjump situations/@ a FT and if many players had similar or shorter stacks than him. (That's basically when ICM will have a big impact on our overall strategy).
Thanks for your questions, again if there's more, don't be shy this process benefits each n everyone of us who takes a second to participate in the comments section.
Gl at the tables.
Jp
Thx JP.
To go one step further on the A5 hand on the subject of not passing up profitable spots, with 41bb to start this hand if you lose you're knocked down to 14bb and your chances of winning and flexibility going forward are significantly hampered. All for at most 5% chip ev edge. I believe a lot of regs take these spots but am not 100% convinced it's correct.
You speak about calling the shove so as not to be exploited but are we really going to be in this spot, with these stack sizes/potions/etc against this villian often enough to where we will be exploited?? Additionally, we can be exploited the other way around as well by having villains jam tighter ranges including the top of their range knowing how light were calling.
I guess what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is what our tournament life is worth and how do we want to play so as to give ourselves the best chance of winning the tournament. Going from 41bb to 68bb puts us in a better spot but doesn't increase our chances of winning so much as our chances of losing are significantly increased if we lose the hand.
Hello, thanks for the vid. I see in general a 40 % cb also with draws and value hands. for my point "cash player" is hard to figurate the advantage of this size. Can you explain a little idea about your sizes in general pl. Ty
@JMTeach1
Sorry what hand are you refering to ?
AQ value IP, but I perceive this size in your general plan not only in this spot.
Great video! Very interesting stuff.
Great video overall JP, but 34mins in, the AA hand just made me confused. I would slamdunk call on the river as played taking your line, since many (and he apparently) shoves worse for value not expecting you to check turns with overpairs and we beat everything but the absolute top of his range, when alot of draws missed, but the turn decision was more interesting i think. From what you said in video you bet very polar on the turn (sets/JT for value) and a ton of semibluffs? I haven't counted combos but aren't you heavily overbluffing this spot with such a narrow valuebetrange? I would treat AA as clear value and bet it most of the time, but this made me think about it and i can see arguments for checking aswell. But since we have so many (semi)bluffs i would feel unbalanced not valuebetting AA.
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