Max Lacerda Is there a huge EV loss when folding turn with AJ on J high board w/o a specific read on villain. I play in anon pools and am wondering what kind of frequency I can make tight folds like this w/o blundering tons of EV. I play 50nl and pool tends to over stab flop and under bluff turns fyi.
Depends on the specific scenario, positions, flop sizing, textures and so on... It's hard to give a general answer, sometimes it can be bad sometimes it can be good. But usually when it's a tight positional formation + tight preflop ranges (3b or 4b) + big sizing on the flop, population usually plays reasonably different than solver, so it can be ok to fold TPTK, but again, it depends on the specific scenario
Hey Max, great video, thank you very much! But yeah, while I do enjoy live play videos and think we can learn from them when paying full attention, they don´t seem to me like the most optimal way of learning. IMHO HH review using hands that illustrate the concept/leak and explaining what we should be doing differently and the reasoning behind it, using a solver and your oen word,s seem the most effective to me.
Nice to have you here as a coach btw :)
Yeah, but most ppl enjoy live sessions (I'm not a fan as well), that's why I decided to make this a 2 part video - trying to make the best of both worlds. On the next video (which is already recorded) I'll be reviewing the marked hands from this live session, comparing what I thought in game with what is optimal and my conclusions.
I agree with João Guimarães that HH reviews are a better way to learn, I guess it comes down to preference but for me that's for sure what I prefer. I think in this case when you are talking about one particular street it works way better for a HH review, and would be cool to look into a few hands that you marked recently for tricky river spots, or go through some database hands where you perhaps made a river mistake or a good play that most people are not making. Or common mistakes that people make on the river for example.
Hello Max, I really liked the introduction and the case for paying close attention to river decisions as mistakes can be for much larger amounts of big blinds on the river as opposed to flop decisons which are usually very close in EV. Definitely something I hadn't considered much before. Combine that with the fact that most of my study has been on flop strategy I suspect I am also making some big river mistakes. How did you determine that you were doing this in your own game? Did you use some kind of database filter to see how much you were winning/losing on the river, or did you simply notice when reviewing hands that lots of your river decisions were big mistakes?
Basically when you're on an extended downswing, even tho you know a lot about the overall logic of the game, it has to be some big mistakes, and most of those big mistakes are on the river because it's simply when the pot is larger. And yes, it's very good to filter your database for river decisions, you'll for sure find a lot of investments you weren't sure at the time that now you can see were pretty big mistakes.
20.10 - 88 vs recreational player 3bet:
I also tighten up my calling range vs recreationals quite a bit and fold hands that are dominated. Do you think even 88 is a snap fold here? Would be interested to see what sort of range you would call/raise here, and at what point you think your sample of hands is big enough to divert to a wide adjustment vs such a player. I have lost quite a few decent sized pots recently vs recreational players in 3bet pots and probably need to start adjusting way more than I currently do, but it's hard to know where to draw the line on each street when deviating. Any advice would be much appreciated!
You draw the line based on the 3bet stat. So for example, a "standart" reg has around 10% of overall 3bet, if a fish has only 3%, this difference is HUGE. It's not 7% compared to the reg, it's 70%! So yeah, in this case the adjustments would need to be pretty huge and 88 becomes a snap fold easilly. I fyou have more sample on the player you can even make better decisions. For example, most of the players (regs included) have a really tough time 3betting from the big, so you'll often see a player 3betting 12% SBxCO (close to GTO), but 3betting 6% BBxCO (while GTO is around 10%). If you start to "draw" those ranges in a solver you'll se the huge difference there is between those, and for sure you sould be folding more when this player is on the BB compared to the solver.
Hi Max,
In 16:40 you say you are going to use the geometric line, can you detail why you prefer it on this 5Q4r flop?
Same question in 17:40 629r flop.
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Great video ! Thanks
ty!
Great video Max!
Max Lacerda Is there a huge EV loss when folding turn with AJ on J high board w/o a specific read on villain. I play in anon pools and am wondering what kind of frequency I can make tight folds like this w/o blundering tons of EV. I play 50nl and pool tends to over stab flop and under bluff turns fyi.
Depends on the specific scenario, positions, flop sizing, textures and so on... It's hard to give a general answer, sometimes it can be bad sometimes it can be good. But usually when it's a tight positional formation + tight preflop ranges (3b or 4b) + big sizing on the flop, population usually plays reasonably different than solver, so it can be ok to fold TPTK, but again, it depends on the specific scenario
But don't worry, the specific hand you're talking about is reviewed on the next video =D
Hey Max, great video, thank you very much! But yeah, while I do enjoy live play videos and think we can learn from them when paying full attention, they don´t seem to me like the most optimal way of learning. IMHO HH review using hands that illustrate the concept/leak and explaining what we should be doing differently and the reasoning behind it, using a solver and your oen word,s seem the most effective to me.
Nice to have you here as a coach btw :)
Yeah, but most ppl enjoy live sessions (I'm not a fan as well), that's why I decided to make this a 2 part video - trying to make the best of both worlds. On the next video (which is already recorded) I'll be reviewing the marked hands from this live session, comparing what I thought in game with what is optimal and my conclusions.
Thanks for the comment =D
I agree with João Guimarães that HH reviews are a better way to learn, I guess it comes down to preference but for me that's for sure what I prefer. I think in this case when you are talking about one particular street it works way better for a HH review, and would be cool to look into a few hands that you marked recently for tricky river spots, or go through some database hands where you perhaps made a river mistake or a good play that most people are not making. Or common mistakes that people make on the river for example.
Hello Max, I really liked the introduction and the case for paying close attention to river decisions as mistakes can be for much larger amounts of big blinds on the river as opposed to flop decisons which are usually very close in EV. Definitely something I hadn't considered much before. Combine that with the fact that most of my study has been on flop strategy I suspect I am also making some big river mistakes. How did you determine that you were doing this in your own game? Did you use some kind of database filter to see how much you were winning/losing on the river, or did you simply notice when reviewing hands that lots of your river decisions were big mistakes?
Basically when you're on an extended downswing, even tho you know a lot about the overall logic of the game, it has to be some big mistakes, and most of those big mistakes are on the river because it's simply when the pot is larger. And yes, it's very good to filter your database for river decisions, you'll for sure find a lot of investments you weren't sure at the time that now you can see were pretty big mistakes.
20.10 - 88 vs recreational player 3bet:
I also tighten up my calling range vs recreationals quite a bit and fold hands that are dominated. Do you think even 88 is a snap fold here? Would be interested to see what sort of range you would call/raise here, and at what point you think your sample of hands is big enough to divert to a wide adjustment vs such a player. I have lost quite a few decent sized pots recently vs recreational players in 3bet pots and probably need to start adjusting way more than I currently do, but it's hard to know where to draw the line on each street when deviating. Any advice would be much appreciated!
You draw the line based on the 3bet stat. So for example, a "standart" reg has around 10% of overall 3bet, if a fish has only 3%, this difference is HUGE. It's not 7% compared to the reg, it's 70%! So yeah, in this case the adjustments would need to be pretty huge and 88 becomes a snap fold easilly. I fyou have more sample on the player you can even make better decisions. For example, most of the players (regs included) have a really tough time 3betting from the big, so you'll often see a player 3betting 12% SBxCO (close to GTO), but 3betting 6% BBxCO (while GTO is around 10%). If you start to "draw" those ranges in a solver you'll se the huge difference there is between those, and for sure you sould be folding more when this player is on the BB compared to the solver.
Great video!
Hi Max,
In 16:40 you say you are going to use the geometric line, can you detail why you prefer it on this 5Q4r flop?
Same question in 17:40 629r flop.
and thx for the great video.
very good video max
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