23:30 another time stamp on AK7ss-Ts where flush completes and solver likes 27% range bet turn.

28:10 86c on K76ss-8s another spot where we 27% range bet almost.

13:45 HJ vs BB AK on KK9J board (above) prefers B33 vs 40:55 CO vs BB K2h Prefers B50 on KK97cc. Does the possible straight make that big of a difference on these turns to switch our sizing scheme?

Is it something to do with just being OOP? In a B-B line IP we should just be using 50%+ size? Then 4 liners or flush completing turns OOP just using B27?

I think this was a great video and I know you did your best to explain a lot of the stuff. Also very appreciative for all the time you spend answering my questions in the comments. I think this video left me even more confused than before. Just went right over my head.

I know several times throughout the video you mentioned the EV difference is the same or less than 1% and when you do your coaching it could just be a character preference whether student is more comfortable with small, medium, or large sizing. Doesn't matter too much as long as you construct proper frequencies.

I think for most of the boards you mention, where the 27% range bet occurs, what is happening is that the turn completes a lot of draws, which is good for BB. The flop check raising range consists mainly (but not entirely) of:
Strong flop hands
Straight draws
Flush draws
Some backdoor hands or pair + backdoors

On the turns you mention above, BB's range will contain a bunch of straights, flushes and flopped strong hands. Only hands that aren't now strong made hands are hands like flopped pair + backdoor draw (which also often pick up equity on these turns) or naked backdoor flush draws. BB has a large equity advantage, but not all of the made hands (e.g. 2 pair) want to play for stacks, so the best way to realise that equity with BB's range is to bet small. It's the same reason you might bet 27% pot on a K82r board in a 3bet pot - lots of equity but not all your hands want to put all the money in, so best way to realise the equity of your range is the small bet.

For the KK9rJ board it's important to realise that on high board pairs you can't bet too big on the turn due to the commonality of trips on those boards. On this J turn, MP has trips or better ~43% of the time! This forces BB to size down, otherwise BB would either have to bet at a very low frequency, or end up value cutting himself with a bunch of deceptively middle strength hands. If you pick a 2e sizing here as BB you are betting 14% of the time with boats, a small amount of QT and a sprinkle of bluffs. So BB will instead go with 50% or even smaller on these KKX boards. The J turn completes straights and also offsuit (way more combos) boats for MP, hence the smaller size on the turn in the sim.

Hey RunItTw1ce

Previous video on barreling the turn around the 48 min mark I left a comment about using 1/3 on the turn on 4 liners.

I would try to separate cbT IP SRP & cbT OOP SRP via xrF. These are very different nodes. As such, heuristics for CBetting on 4-straight boards will vary and not be consistent.

i.e. AK on KK9J board (13:45). I expected to see more B50+ throughout on the turn. But I'm really struggling on when to use 33% vs 50%+.

Yes, this one threw me off a little, too!

Ultimately it's due to the high symmetry and IP being 100% uncapped, as they will never bet-3bet the flop, meaning they have ALL of the hands we don't want them to have, causing us to size down, whilst still polarising. This heuristic will never take place (in the same way, at least) when cbT IP SRP. Henceforth we should separate mentally, as advised earlier.

23:30 another time stamp on AK7ss-Ts where flush completes and solver likes 27% range bet turn.

On AK7, our XR range is so polarised that it's almost exclusively around FD's and SD's. Therefore on exactly the T(flush) turn, we have an ultra range advantage.

28:10 86c on K76ss-8s another spot where we 27% range bet almost.

Similar to the above, our XR's are almost always build around FD's and SD's, so on exactly 8(flush) turn, we're a very happy fellow and can easily cbT with our entire range.

13:45 HJ vs BB AK on KK9J board (above) prefers B33 vs 40:55 CO vs BB K2h Prefers B50 on KK97cc. Does the possible straight make that big of a difference on these turns to switch our sizing scheme?

As noted in a previous comment of yours, KK9J = no 3bet range from IP after we xrF, so IP has ALL of the nuts, preventing us from 1). Betting too large and 2). Betting too often.

Is it something to do with just being OOP? In a B-B line IP we should just be using 50%+ size? Then 4 liners or flush completing turns OOP just using B27?

Yes, OOP cbT via xrF is VERY different from cbT IP SRP via cbF.

I think this was a great video and I know you did your best to explain a lot of the stuff. Also very appreciative for all the time you spend answering my questions in the comments. I think this video left me even more confused than before. Just went right over my head.

Haha, feeling worse off/more confused is not entirely a bad thing. Allow yourself -- your mind -- time to digest the materials. It seems like a lot of this is new info for you, so I'd recommend not racing to learn it all. Perhaps watch this video back several times. Heck, it may even takes 5 re-rewatches over a month for it to finally click.

I know several times throughout the video you mentioned the EV difference is the same or less than 1% and when you do your coaching it could just be a character preference whether student is more comfortable with small, medium, or large sizing. Doesn't matter too much as long as you construct proper frequencies.

Precisely, yes. So long as your EV loss is not too big, you should have the freedom of choice to do whatever you want to do!

Also very appreciative for all the time you spend answering my questions in the comments.

Ofc, here to help!

I think for most of the boards you mention, where the 27% range bet occurs, what is happening is that the turn completes a lot of draws, which is good for BB. The flop check raising range consists mainly (but not entirely) of:
Strong flop hands
Straight draws
Flush draws
Some backdoor hands or pair + backdoors

On the turns you mention above, BB's range will contain a bunch of straights, flushes and flopped strong hands. Only hands that aren't now strong made hands are hands like flopped pair + backdoor draw (which also often pick up equity on these turns) or naked backdoor flush draws. BB has a large equity advantage, but not all of the made hands (e.g. 2 pair) want to play for stacks, so the best way to realise that equity with BB's range is to bet small. It's the same reason you might bet 27% pot on a K82r board in a 3bet pot - lots of equity but not all your hands want to put all the money in, so best way to realise the equity of your range is the small bet.

I'm not a fan of the over-generalisation of what to do after IP b27 range bet → xr → draw completing turn. The strategy is more nuanced. Sometimes we must find checks -- occasionally a full range check(!) -- yet other times we can range bet for more more than half the pot OOP OTT.

On the turns you mention above, BB's range will contain a bunch of straights, flushes and flopped strong hands.

Yes, exactly BBvsUTG AK7sTf & K76s8f cbT via xrF are excellent situations for us. We are not nearly in a situation this good often at all when cbT via xrF. That's (poker) variance for you.

For the KK9rJ board it's important to realise that on high board pairs you can't bet too big on the turn due to the commonality of trips on those boards. On this J turn, MP has trips or better ~43% of the time! This forces BB to size down, otherwise BB would either have to bet at a very low frequency, or end up value cutting himself with a bunch of deceptively middle strength hands. If you pick a 2e sizing here as BB you are betting 14% of the time with boats, a small amount of QT and a sprinkle of bluffs. So BB will instead go with 50% or even smaller on these KKX boards. The J turn completes straights and also offsuit (way more combos) boats for MP, hence the smaller size on the turn in the sim.

Yes. A main takeaway is that IP shouldn't bet-3bet the flop, due to the high symmetry. Therefore, as OOP going into the turn, we are at a negative asymmetry, and henceforth cannot look to put too much money in & not too often, either!

1). In your pre session routine, try to allow yourself the focus on only 1-2 things, maximum. ((Everything else is noise right now)). This may help you to hone in on the present task

2). I frankly don't like the heuristics you are trying to focus upon. They are not sensitive enough to what Poker demands. In this case, you are not allowing yourself enough freedom when playing. I've advised you many times before on this.

2.1.) A current heuristic/focus point for me when starting a session is to "find a reason". That is, do not action without first finding a reason. That's it. There's no precise detail/instruction, which IMO cuts off the fluidity of play, as per which yours does.

Hope this helps.

Lmao. Perhaps!

But really, this is quite a unique board where almost all of our draws are in fact combo draws in one way or another.

Honestly, not too sure. I personally would not/do not want to play 3bets on these AKK textures anyway. It's not like we expect OOP to over XR them initially in reality.

matlittle I thought the size down was due to the top pair changing and being better for the IP player. Where a lower card perhaps a Qs 6s 5d - (2d / Td)? Now we would still overbet. I see this often in 3BP as well, where we cbet the flop and then on Ace or king turn we end up using 1/3 pot to make middling pairs JJ-77 indifferent. Where a larger 2/3+ size gives them an easier decision.

Q65ss-Kdd on wizard
compared to
Q65ss-2dd on wizard

Turn cards

I thought the size down was due to the top pair changing and being better for the IP player.

BB is not all that interested in betting top pair on the turn given that the sizing is going to be large and with a polar range, so 2 pair+ hands will be the drivers of the betting region, not top pair. The reason K or A is bad for BB is because it brings about the highest frequency of 2 pairs and sets for BTN on the turn. BTN wasn't cbetting range on flop, so will have AA and KK more than JJ, TT etc. Over-cards will complete offsuit 2 pairs for BTN that BB has at reduced frequency. The main consequence is that it reduces the frequency of turn bets from BB. You are right that it can cause BB to size down slightly too and is indeed important for this exact scenario and indeed is more important still on the A turn.

The 2-tone turn heuristic I mentioned is a factor too - if you look at the turn card aggregate report matrix you posted you will see that over-betting is less common on the diamond turns compared to their respective heart or club turns. It's not so easy to see from the diagram, but if you run a sim with one turn sizing and compare EVs in a number of different scenarios, you will see that the two-tone (diamond) turns can result in BB sizing down by one bet sizing. For this exact scenario my GTOWizard sim has Kd as 75% preferred to anything bigger, whereas Kh is indifferent between 75% and 110% (e). So it is a minor effect and of course way less important than the size of the card.

Indeed, we'll typically size down on x2fd textures. This is due to the increased symmetry relative to 4r textures. That isn't to say we cannot b125 on x2fd textures, though.

If you run subtree's, polarising for b70/b100/b125 will result in comparable EV outputs. So make sure not to take PIO so literally on sizing options.

Great continuation to the series. Nice that you left the plant incident in the video :)

Thanks SoundSpeed ! Glad you liked the blooper, haha

15:55 when barreling hands like jj or qt with a single spade, would you only follow through on river spades?

Yes, definitely!

33:17 I guess I am unsure why we have such a range advantage on this turn that we are allowed to range bet for a block.

Let's take a second to think about our XR range BBvsUTG on K63s

...

It should be quite SD/FD dense. Therefore on precisely the 5(flush) turn, we hit the turn extremely well.

Thanks!

Welcome as always!

Thank you! nohkyetae :)

got a laugh out of the 1/1000 87 XR on AKQr as well. XD

For this video, all PIOSolver and ofc some Excel

Anyways really solid video , really enjoyed this format.

Thank you Jrive96 ! Glad you enjoyed :)

got a laugh out of the 1/1000 87 XR on AKQr as well. XD

Hahaha, yeah, I've had a few of these in the past. Important to not delude yourself and trust that it's good just because PIO did it :D

Thank you Sungar78 :)