Hey man, thanks! Yeah I think overall I take things a bit slower than some of the other coaches. With a format like this it will usually be a bit slower anyway as I want to go in depth and make sure I cover everything...I have been working on other formats though such as live vids but naturally I find it more difficult, as soon as I have content I'm happy with you guys will see it
I like your video. I'm a PLO grinder myself still stuck at 25PLO, trying to improve. I got some questions.
The river @ 40 minutes. Don't u want to check here to induce a bluff? Cause it seems to me ur planning to get the money in either way. Normally the hand that calls u off now won't be calling u off, but he might make a play with that kind of hand since a lot of straigths got there on the river. Normally the only hands that are gonna call u off are better straigths and maybe two pair kind of hands.
The hand from 43 minutes. Isn't the lead on the flop a bit loose, what u gonna do if one of the big stacks is raising u and what will u do if the normal stacks are gonna raise u? On the turn, aren't u gonna have to fold to many times when somebody raises ur bet? And my findings are on both 25PLO and 50PLO is that people are calling off really light, they like to call a lot but they don't like being aggressive. With this said, isn't the river shove a bad one, won't u be getting called off too often. People generally don't like to fold flushes on this river, maybe some weak flushes but I'v seen people calling off those as well.
Hey, there's a ton of Essential content based on low stakes PLO so hopefully that will help you start to climb the ladder.
@40 minutes: The way the hand played out, given our opponent just flatted our small bet on the turn, it suggested to me he had a hand that wanted to see a cheap river, and so I was weighting him towards having a weaker range consisting of marginal showdown hands...overpair+flushdraw, weak pair+draw that could've upgraded to two pair. When checked to on the river, these hands would very likely be checking, however would be put in tough spot when jammed on and could consider calling. Likewise, considering times I would be bluffing, for example with a busted nut flush draw and some blockers, this run out is one that would be good to barrel attacking his weak perceived range. I also didn't imagine our opponent would bet/call the flop with tons of 9 10/ 5 9 combos unless we got unlucky (e.g. KK910 with hearts, but you can't always live in fear!)...need to value bet hands other than the nuts otherwise we'll be too polarised in spots like this. I don't think the average player in these games tends to value bet thinly or go too crazy bluffing. On the other hand however, as you said they often call off too light. So in a spot where I have the nuts or in a hand like this, I won't get too tricky and just take a pure value line to get as much money into the pot as possible.
To put it simply!...I felt betting the river was the best chance to get in money good; there was a better chance of being called by worse than inducing a bluff or being called by better.
@43 minutes: It seemed to me like the best option to try and realise my equity whilst not risking a ton but gaining a lot of fold equity. Certainly is a thin play though. As I said in the vid, I think opting into this spot preflop was a mistake for starters.
Flop- When I led my plan was to bet/fold, it sucks as there was a variety of stack sizes involved and if either of the shorter stacks jammed it would be close given the price. However, I didn't expect them to make a play without a pretty legit hand given it was multiway and so against a range that very likely consists of sets/flushdraws/higher straight draws or a combo of these, I would be lucky to have equity in the high 20 percents against these hands (I would have to do some calculations on how much exactly we would need vs the pot odds we were getting).
I get the two calls from CO and BTN. I expected any legit made hand to raise me on the flop, and given that I block a Q this made these combos less likely.
Considering the c/o's range...given he only had one player to act behind him and the price, he could flat with a lot of marginals e.g. 1pair+weakish draws. When the btn then flats behind, I think he is likely to have a stronger draw as I don't think he would opt into seeing a turn 3way after strength has been shown from me with a hand that would suffer from reverse implied odds (e.g. dominated flush draws)...something like a bare nut flush draw would make sense. I would expect him to squeeze pre a decent amount of the time with a lot of his connected broadway cards i.e. AKJ with clubs type hands and average players would often raise get it in on the flop with such a strong draw. My plan on blank turns, such as off suit low cards was to pot.
Turn- Pretty weird card, although my hand has upgraded I would have been happier seeing a blank. Does possibly connect with the others somewhat so I'm not happy getting it in. On the other hand, I don't want to check and see it check through/cap my range, as I would also lead this board with strong combo draws and continue to barrel when hit. I think I would be bet/folding, it would feel super dirty against the CO as we would be getting such a good price, but I just don't think they would ever be bluffing (again it's something I would have to look at more in depth with math). Could potentially have some semi bluffs but they would still be doing okay against my hand.
River- I'm very very rarely winning at showdown but given the way the hand played and the fact the top of his range is pretty much the nut flush I'm happy to apply pressure here.
The point you make about people not folding is one of the key things to these lower stakes games; what makes them genuinely difficult to beat is that there is such a variation in the understanding of the game-rarely at mid/high stakes will there be people playing who aren't somewhat solid.
Using a resource like RIO is great for learning and thinking on another level about the game, but sometimes players in these games just aren't thinking on the same wavelength. You will likely have made some very good plays in the past that would be effective against a thinking player, but when a player isn't thinking it's very difficult to gauge where you're at! It's also pretty easy to get fancy-play-syndrome and try to outplay people you think you deserve to beat because you're the better player, and frustrating to get called in some spots because you know they should be folding. I think the more you play in these player pools the more naturally you'll be able to sniff out those spots/players and be disciplined. That is why generally it is best to avoid spots like this, play pretty tight and wait for opportunities where you can easily eek out lots of value, unfortunately they don't come along as often as we'd like!
Thanks for the questions, hope that mini essay helps, if only I put more effort into my University work...
Really like video format and the speed is just perfect imo, because I think it is interresting for future discussion in the forums! ;) I think this video has the the best most useful so far and also the most relevant as there are most people who play 6m-mikro-stakes PLO which are essential members. Keep up the good work!
Really cool to get such positive feedback, glad it's relevant for what you want, keep letting us know what sort of content you want so we can cater for as many of the members as possible. I definitely recommend getting involved in the forums (I need to be more active and post hands myself!). Reading through the mixed opinions and thinking about different spots/approaches played a big part in me learning the game
I really enjoyed seeing this one,your elaborate analysis is top imo as u dig deep to enable us to see all the options/possibilities.
I play myself at 25PLO on PP.fr and i strive to play TAG vs so many donks who rely on chance at best.
Could you some day talk about ur daily schedule: how many hours u play,nb of tables,what's ur range of limits,ur bkm,how u strengthen ur mental game ( do u apply Tendler's tips? )...
Do u also plan to make masterclasses?
Thanks a lot for ur work and GL on tables.
Hey man, really appreciate the compliments. Sorry for the crazy delay in answering this, I have no idea how I missed it, just stumbled upon it now!
-In games like that, TAG seems like the way to go! Play solid ranges and really try to value own people getting it in there with dominated hands and draws.
-My daily schedule varies tons depending on what I have going on in my personal life, as well as what games are running. I certainly don't have a fixed schedule or targets for volume, I just play when I feel like it! The first few months of the year I'd say I wasn't playing more than 20 hours per week, in April however I think I averaged at about 6-9 hours every day for the entire month.
- Number of tables usually varies from 4-9, I'm currently just grinding away on a 13inch laptop which isn't ideal, but I'm getting a new set up soon so squeezing a couple more in would be more of a possibility. I'd say I can really comfortably play 6, more than that and my attention might be affected a little, but that all just comes along with practice, and 10 tables+ on a laptop is just too hectic!
- On Stars, I usually play .25/.50 up to 2/4, on Full Tilt where I put in the main chunk of my volume, I play .50/1 up to 5/10.
-Improving my mental game and having a more professional approach have actually been my main goals in poker coming into this year. Up to this point I've not classed poker as a job and that's kind of been an excuse for me. I never wanted to take it too seriously as I was worried it would become more of a chore than something fun (which happened with other hobbies in the past). I think however it has got to the stage where, when I'm hyperfocused and taking things more seriously, I produce better results which in turn makes me more happy and I have more fun!
-It was a pretty big revelation to me when I considered the concept that you can have a sick A-game but if the conditions are only right for that 10% of the time, and the other 90% of the time you're playing your C-game which is pretty bad, you're actually the mark in the games. So I try and normalise everything I do and be balanced. We're all human and are going to have off-days, I just try and be as honest with myself as possible, and even if I really want to play but know something might affect me negatively (if I have other stress or stuff on my mind etc.), I just don't play. My willpower has certainly gotten better recently, I've put myself through the ringer a bunch of times and had some pretty sick swings that were more a testament of my mental unbalance rather than skill and understanding of the game.
In terms of mental game stuff, I'm a big advocate of healthy body=healthy mind so I try to stay active, I feel pretty guilty if I don't leave the house all day which is easy to do when playing! My sleep isn't the best but I work on trying to have as consistent a sleeping pattern as possible. I don't think I function too badly on little sleep, however if I haven't eaten or drank anything, my concentration goes pretty much instantly and I get very frustrated very easily. If you ever see me online firing off stacks you can guarantee I jumped into games and didn't move to do anything the whole day! I also think it's really important to socialise and do some stuff outside of poker, I like poker being part of my life rather than it being my life. Plus after bad sessions I always feel better just hanging out with people that won't remind of it!
Other than forum things I've not actually read any mental game books but have it on my to-do list. Tommy Angelo has just started doing Elite vids for RIO, his debut vid was sick and it sounds like he has plans for a lot of really interesting content so I'll definitely be watching those (cheeky hint to upgrade to Elite if you aren't already ;)
What do you mean by masterclasses, 1-1 coaching?
Hopefully that answers all your questions and was worth the wait!
Hey
Why not potting at 58:16 ? Given the stack sizes I think you should put in as much money as you can because you assume that you have the best hand most of the times and because there are many bad river cards. Or am I wrong?
Loading 17 Comments...
good video. i like the way you break it down.
Really enjoyed this video Jack, thanks for the great insight.
Always nice to know people get something out of the vids, cheers guys!
I really like the video too man. Thank you.
also like the format. could go a bit faster tho, imo.
you can increase the playback speed of the videos. I do that sometimes when rewatching some.
Hey man, thanks! Yeah I think overall I take things a bit slower than some of the other coaches. With a format like this it will usually be a bit slower anyway as I want to go in depth and make sure I cover everything...I have been working on other formats though such as live vids but naturally I find it more difficult, as soon as I have content I'm happy with you guys will see it
I found this video to be the best one you have done so far. I like the format and your analysis.
Thanks very much! One of my goals with these vids is to progress and improve my general teaching style so that's great to hear
I like your video. I'm a PLO grinder myself still stuck at 25PLO, trying to improve. I got some questions.
The river @ 40 minutes. Don't u want to check here to induce a bluff? Cause it seems to me ur planning to get the money in either way. Normally the hand that calls u off now won't be calling u off, but he might make a play with that kind of hand since a lot of straigths got there on the river. Normally the only hands that are gonna call u off are better straigths and maybe two pair kind of hands.
The hand from 43 minutes. Isn't the lead on the flop a bit loose, what u gonna do if one of the big stacks is raising u and what will u do if the normal stacks are gonna raise u? On the turn, aren't u gonna have to fold to many times when somebody raises ur bet? And my findings are on both 25PLO and 50PLO is that people are calling off really light, they like to call a lot but they don't like being aggressive. With this said, isn't the river shove a bad one, won't u be getting called off too often. People generally don't like to fold flushes on this river, maybe some weak flushes but I'v seen people calling off those as well.
Looking forward to the next movie!
Hey, there's a ton of Essential content based on low stakes PLO so hopefully that will help you start to climb the ladder.
@40 minutes: The way the hand played out, given our opponent just flatted our small bet on the turn, it suggested to me he had a hand that wanted to see a cheap river, and so I was weighting him towards having a weaker range consisting of marginal showdown hands...overpair+flushdraw, weak pair+draw that could've upgraded to two pair. When checked to on the river, these hands would very likely be checking, however would be put in tough spot when jammed on and could consider calling. Likewise, considering times I would be bluffing, for example with a busted nut flush draw and some blockers, this run out is one that would be good to barrel attacking his weak perceived range. I also didn't imagine our opponent would bet/call the flop with tons of 9 10/ 5 9 combos unless we got unlucky (e.g. KK910 with hearts, but you can't always live in fear!)...need to value bet hands other than the nuts otherwise we'll be too polarised in spots like this. I don't think the average player in these games tends to value bet thinly or go too crazy bluffing. On the other hand however, as you said they often call off too light. So in a spot where I have the nuts or in a hand like this, I won't get too tricky and just take a pure value line to get as much money into the pot as possible.
To put it simply!...I felt betting the river was the best chance to get in money good; there was a better chance of being called by worse than inducing a bluff or being called by better.
@43 minutes: It seemed to me like the best option to try and realise my equity whilst not risking a ton but gaining a lot of fold equity. Certainly is a thin play though. As I said in the vid, I think opting into this spot preflop was a mistake for starters.
Flop- When I led my plan was to bet/fold, it sucks as there was a variety of stack sizes involved and if either of the shorter stacks jammed it would be close given the price. However, I didn't expect them to make a play without a pretty legit hand given it was multiway and so against a range that very likely consists of sets/flushdraws/higher straight draws or a combo of these, I would be lucky to have equity in the high 20 percents against these hands (I would have to do some calculations on how much exactly we would need vs the pot odds we were getting).
I get the two calls from CO and BTN. I expected any legit made hand to raise me on the flop, and given that I block a Q this made these combos less likely.
Considering the c/o's range...given he only had one player to act behind him and the price, he could flat with a lot of marginals e.g. 1pair+weakish draws. When the btn then flats behind, I think he is likely to have a stronger draw as I don't think he would opt into seeing a turn 3way after strength has been shown from me with a hand that would suffer from reverse implied odds (e.g. dominated flush draws)...something like a bare nut flush draw would make sense. I would expect him to squeeze pre a decent amount of the time with a lot of his connected broadway cards i.e. AKJ with clubs type hands and average players would often raise get it in on the flop with such a strong draw. My plan on blank turns, such as off suit low cards was to pot.
Turn- Pretty weird card, although my hand has upgraded I would have been happier seeing a blank. Does possibly connect with the others somewhat so I'm not happy getting it in. On the other hand, I don't want to check and see it check through/cap my range, as I would also lead this board with strong combo draws and continue to barrel when hit. I think I would be bet/folding, it would feel super dirty against the CO as we would be getting such a good price, but I just don't think they would ever be bluffing (again it's something I would have to look at more in depth with math). Could potentially have some semi bluffs but they would still be doing okay against my hand.
River- I'm very very rarely winning at showdown but given the way the hand played and the fact the top of his range is pretty much the nut flush I'm happy to apply pressure here.
The point you make about people not folding is one of the key things to these lower stakes games; what makes them genuinely difficult to beat is that there is such a variation in the understanding of the game-rarely at mid/high stakes will there be people playing who aren't somewhat solid.
Using a resource like RIO is great for learning and thinking on another level about the game, but sometimes players in these games just aren't thinking on the same wavelength. You will likely have made some very good plays in the past that would be effective against a thinking player, but when a player isn't thinking it's very difficult to gauge where you're at! It's also pretty easy to get fancy-play-syndrome and try to outplay people you think you deserve to beat because you're the better player, and frustrating to get called in some spots because you know they should be folding. I think the more you play in these player pools the more naturally you'll be able to sniff out those spots/players and be disciplined. That is why generally it is best to avoid spots like this, play pretty tight and wait for opportunities where you can easily eek out lots of value, unfortunately they don't come along as often as we'd like!
Thanks for the questions, hope that mini essay helps, if only I put more effort into my University work...
Really like video format and the speed is just perfect imo, because I think it is interresting for future discussion in the forums! ;) I think this video has the the best most useful so far and also the most relevant as there are most people who play 6m-mikro-stakes PLO which are essential members. Keep up the good work!
Thx in advance
Really cool to get such positive feedback, glad it's relevant for what you want, keep letting us know what sort of content you want so we can cater for as many of the members as possible. I definitely recommend getting involved in the forums (I need to be more active and post hands myself!). Reading through the mixed opinions and thinking about different spots/approaches played a big part in me learning the game
^+1 zuzupet, love your work Jack (Y)
I really enjoyed seeing this one,your elaborate analysis is top imo as u dig deep to enable us to see all the options/possibilities.
I play myself at 25PLO on PP.fr and i strive to play TAG vs so many donks who rely on chance at best.
Could you some day talk about ur daily schedule: how many hours u play,nb of tables,what's ur range of limits,ur bkm,how u strengthen ur mental game ( do u apply Tendler's tips? )...
Do u also plan to make masterclasses?
Thanks a lot for ur work and GL on tables.
Hey man, really appreciate the compliments. Sorry for the crazy delay in answering this, I have no idea how I missed it, just stumbled upon it now!
-In games like that, TAG seems like the way to go! Play solid ranges and really try to value own people getting it in there with dominated hands and draws.
-My daily schedule varies tons depending on what I have going on in my personal life, as well as what games are running. I certainly don't have a fixed schedule or targets for volume, I just play when I feel like it! The first few months of the year I'd say I wasn't playing more than 20 hours per week, in April however I think I averaged at about 6-9 hours every day for the entire month.
- Number of tables usually varies from 4-9, I'm currently just grinding away on a 13inch laptop which isn't ideal, but I'm getting a new set up soon so squeezing a couple more in would be more of a possibility. I'd say I can really comfortably play 6, more than that and my attention might be affected a little, but that all just comes along with practice, and 10 tables+ on a laptop is just too hectic!
- On Stars, I usually play .25/.50 up to 2/4, on Full Tilt where I put in the main chunk of my volume, I play .50/1 up to 5/10.
-Improving my mental game and having a more professional approach have actually been my main goals in poker coming into this year. Up to this point I've not classed poker as a job and that's kind of been an excuse for me. I never wanted to take it too seriously as I was worried it would become more of a chore than something fun (which happened with other hobbies in the past). I think however it has got to the stage where, when I'm hyperfocused and taking things more seriously, I produce better results which in turn makes me more happy and I have more fun!
-It was a pretty big revelation to me when I considered the concept that you can have a sick A-game but if the conditions are only right for that 10% of the time, and the other 90% of the time you're playing your C-game which is pretty bad, you're actually the mark in the games. So I try and normalise everything I do and be balanced. We're all human and are going to have off-days, I just try and be as honest with myself as possible, and even if I really want to play but know something might affect me negatively (if I have other stress or stuff on my mind etc.), I just don't play. My willpower has certainly gotten better recently, I've put myself through the ringer a bunch of times and had some pretty sick swings that were more a testament of my mental unbalance rather than skill and understanding of the game.
In terms of mental game stuff, I'm a big advocate of healthy body=healthy mind so I try to stay active, I feel pretty guilty if I don't leave the house all day which is easy to do when playing! My sleep isn't the best but I work on trying to have as consistent a sleeping pattern as possible. I don't think I function too badly on little sleep, however if I haven't eaten or drank anything, my concentration goes pretty much instantly and I get very frustrated very easily. If you ever see me online firing off stacks you can guarantee I jumped into games and didn't move to do anything the whole day! I also think it's really important to socialise and do some stuff outside of poker, I like poker being part of my life rather than it being my life. Plus after bad sessions I always feel better just hanging out with people that won't remind of it!
Other than forum things I've not actually read any mental game books but have it on my to-do list. Tommy Angelo has just started doing Elite vids for RIO, his debut vid was sick and it sounds like he has plans for a lot of really interesting content so I'll definitely be watching those (cheeky hint to upgrade to Elite if you aren't already ;)
What do you mean by masterclasses, 1-1 coaching?
Hopefully that answers all your questions and was worth the wait!
Hey
Why not potting at 58:16 ? Given the stack sizes I think you should put in as much money as you can because you assume that you have the best hand most of the times and because there are many bad river cards. Or am I wrong?
Be the first to add a comment
You must upgrade your account to leave a comment.