Zachary Freeman11 years, 11 months agoHi Sean,
Thanks very much for responding to my post. You did a great job of arguing your side adressing most of my points and you particualrly were good at being open minded to the possibiltiy that your strategy isn't neccesarily optimal. You instead just gave points to the strengths of your strategy and the weaknesses to mine.
I would like to touch on your minimum combined defense frequency analysis. If BBs 3bet frequency is high enough that it becomes obvious that he is trying to capatilize on a automatic profit 3bet then BTN and SB can defend a little wider then [AQ+, AJs+, 77+] Even if we slightly widen BTNs defense range to [77+,ATs+,KJs+,ATo+] that would mean he would be defending 20% of the time before even considering 4bet bluffs. And given that he is 3betting often enough to capatilize on a auto pf profit the range above still has a considerable equity advantage. If we as SB continue to a 3bet with [99-77,AJs,KQs,AQo-AJo,KQo] we would be defending 4.7/13.9= 34% of the time without incorporating any back-raise bluffs. I think achieveing the minimum defense thresholds is not a difficult task.
Secondly, if either BTN or SB realize that BB is employing a strategy of high 3bet% then two things can transpire. a) BTN will no longer open 45% of hands and if his PFR drops to 35% then the tighter defense range of [77+, AQo+, Ajs+] will occure 18% of the time now.
Lastly, you mentioned that having to flat KK+ occasionally, to increase our frequency and strength of our contuing range, would diminish our EV and strength of our 3bet frequency. However, if BB is 3betting a lot to attack BTNs wide range and our capped range, then by flatting KK+ occasionally we now often pick up an extra minimum 9bb. BTN will be defending wider to the BB 3bet so we pick up another 6bb there and occasionally more in the form of a 4bet which all adds up to a lot of recouped EV.
PS - please stop using "So..." as a period (I don't know if you listen to your own videos but you do this about ~10x per video)
R0b5ter11 years, 11 months agoThanks for answering my question Sean. I really appreciate it. And yest I did mean check/call, check/raise and check/fold. Thanks again and I love this site!
I know some players advocate min-raising from all positions, and a lot of succesful players seem to be adopting this strategy. Question is, is this sound in theory?
*We do invest less to win the same amount preflop or see a hand to showdown. (Likely this could improve our EV - but I guess it might be tough to quantify for the early positions)
*Players should be inclined to defend more hands since their pot-odds improves, but given UTG's chance of stealing succesfully and the tiny requirement from BB to defend enough, does this really affect us?
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Thanks very much for responding to my post. You did a great job of arguing your side adressing most of my points and you particualrly were good at being open minded to the possibiltiy that your strategy isn't neccesarily optimal. You instead just gave points to the strengths of your strategy and the weaknesses to mine.
I would like to touch on your minimum combined defense frequency analysis. If BBs 3bet frequency is high enough that it becomes obvious that he is trying to capatilize on a automatic profit 3bet then BTN and SB can defend a little wider then [AQ+, AJs+, 77+] Even if we slightly widen BTNs defense range to [77+,ATs+,KJs+,ATo+] that would mean he would be defending 20% of the time before even considering 4bet bluffs. And given that he is 3betting often enough to capatilize on a auto pf profit the range above still has a considerable equity advantage. If we as SB continue to a 3bet with [99-77,AJs,KQs,AQo-AJo,KQo] we would be defending 4.7/13.9= 34% of the time without incorporating any back-raise bluffs. I think achieveing the minimum defense thresholds is not a difficult task.
Secondly, if either BTN or SB realize that BB is employing a strategy of high 3bet% then two things can transpire. a) BTN will no longer open 45% of hands and if his PFR drops to 35% then the tighter defense range of [77+, AQo+, Ajs+] will occure 18% of the time now.
Lastly, you mentioned that having to flat KK+ occasionally, to increase our frequency and strength of our contuing range, would diminish our EV and strength of our 3bet frequency. However, if BB is 3betting a lot to attack BTNs wide range and our capped range, then by flatting KK+ occasionally we now often pick up an extra minimum 9bb. BTN will be defending wider to the BB 3bet so we pick up another 6bb there and occasionally more in the form of a 4bet which all adds up to a lot of recouped EV.
PS - please stop using "So..." as a period (I don't know if you listen to your own videos but you do this about ~10x per video)
I know some players advocate min-raising from all positions, and a lot of succesful players seem to be adopting this strategy. Question is, is this sound in theory?
*We do invest less to win the same amount preflop or see a hand to showdown. (Likely this could improve our EV - but I guess it might be tough to quantify for the early positions)
*Players should be inclined to defend more hands since their pot-odds improves, but given UTG's chance of stealing succesfully and the tiny requirement from BB to defend enough, does this really affect us?
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