In HEM, if you filtered for Low Pairs {66-22} UTG 9handed are you winning?
In my own game how i am feeling is related to two certain key areas:
Feelings and frequencies during your session. having a good sense of villain's bluff frequencies in certain spots helps me to take the correct line - this can be both instinctive and intuitive.
Feelings and emotions, biases, tilt and awareness of mental processes. knowing when i am making a play based on sound strategy or some other factors, that may or may not be helpful. knowing how my opponent is feeling.
In both cases, this is against players that are not balanced and as such i wont be playing a balanced strategy either. When you are feelings are right, you are basically taking a maximally exploitative line due to other information/circumstances available.
Having said all this.. back to the first two 'feel' hands that came up
your 55 open UTG: surely this should be purely based on the profitability of the open. ie. how tight/loose are the players, how aggressive how do they play postflop. being 9handed do you not get 3bet and/or run into better hands too often to consider opening this hand UTG? This to me is less feel and more theoretical AND if you did open it by 'feel' it would seem its losing - you are doing it because you bored, or want to generate action.
your AQs facing shortstack open and SB 3bet: given the shortstack opening range, your 'feel' here could work well in that if you have a good grasp of the SB bluffing frequency, a small 4bet will be quite profitable if you have gained knowledge of SB's propensity to re-steal light, conversely your 'feel' may want you to snap fold pre, given SB is not capable of making those light re-steals. as such, the 'feel' part of your game would be more applicable in this spot and not the 55 open.
***
Jared Tendler in Mental Game of Poker 2 has some good material on feelings, being a 'feel' player and how they relate to your intuition when he dissected the differences between intuition, thinking and instinct - have you read his book?
your 55 open UTG: surely this should be purely based on the profitability of the open. ie. how tight/loose are the players, how aggressive how do they play postflop. being 9handed do you not get 3bet and/or run into better hands too often to consider opening this hand UTG? This to me is less feel and more theoretical AND if you did open it by 'feel' it would seem its losing - you are doing it because you bored, or want to generate action.
your AQs facing shortstack open and SB 3bet: given the shortstack opening range, your 'feel' here could work well in that if you have a good grasp of the SB bluffing frequency, a small 4bet will be quite profitable if you have gained knowledge of SB's propensity to re-steal light, conversely your 'feel' may want you to snap fold pre, given SB is not capable of making those light re-steals. as such, the 'feel' part of your game would be more applicable in this spot and not the 55 open.
Yes... with a but. When I'm at the table, I don't "know" the theoretical EV of every play I'm going to make. I don't often try to calculate these things at the table... unless it's something very simple like pot odds. I'd rather go with what I already think I know, and access that by feel. Then, when I find something better (usually away from the tables), my feel for that spot will be different. This way I can go off of feel for both 55, and AQ, and play well on a ton of tables at the same time.
It would be different if I was playing 1 table. Then I would be analyzing every possible play rather than relying on my feel, which leads to a very different style of play.
Hi Mike, thanks for this feel video, I would like to see more of these in the near future. As for the 66 hand in CO against HJ (Jlost88) isn't 15x the raise enough odds to call to set mine? And would you fold out 66 in a live cash game in a similar spot? -- I purchased MGoP I & II before the WSOP, I just finished book one, going to start book two soon.
Hi Mike, thanks for this feel video, I would like to see more of these in the near future.
Thanks :)
As for the 66 hand in CO against HJ (Jlost88) isn't 15x the raise enough odds to call to set mine?
I consider it not enough.
And would you fold out 66 in a live cash game in a similar spot?
I can't say for sure one way or another. I'd be able to consciously take in a lot more information if I was playing live, which would allow me to make a better decision. It would depend a lot on what was similar about the situation, and what wasn't. I'm much more likely to have a read on someone that would allow me to play looser against when I'm in a live setting.
Aren't you talking about 'heuristics' more than 'feel?' It's not so much your letting your emotions or feelings dictate your play, but rather that you've developed short cuts in your decision making process (through experience, study away from the table) that allow you to make better decisions even if you aren't consciously aware of all the steps IN those decisions in the moment. While many people develop negative heuristics (availability bias, etc.,) I think that it's still a less pejorative term to poker players than 'feel,' and you might experience a little less blowback with it. Plus, I humbly submit that it's more accurate.
Sure... but "feel" still describes my process better. There are lots of amazing players that describe themselves as feel players, (such as Phil), so I don't think there's really a problem with being a feel player... I'm just describing the process of how that works.
The thing is that in game, my decisions are largely based on how I feel. And how I feel is largely based on the logic and math of the situation.
I guess what I see as different from what you and I are describing is that when you describe heuristics, it sounds that this is still an intellectual "I should do .... because of ....", and while that works, there is another way.
Whether your feel is more accurate or not depends on how skilled you are with your intuition. While I would expect the intellectual side is "more accurate" for many people, I would also expect that using intuitive feel has the potential to go farther... although it is more difficult.
No, I totally get what you're saying: you're giving a definition of a heuristic. Here's from the wikipedia entry, (note the part about intuition being a part of it):
Heuristic (/hjʉˈrɪstɨk/; Greek: "Εὑρίσκω", "find" or "discover") refers to experience-based techniques for problem solving, learning, and discovery that gives a solution which is not guaranteed to be optimal. Where the exhaustive search is impractical, heuristic methods are used to speed up the process of finding a satisfactory solution via mental shortcuts to ease the cognitive load of making a decision. Examples of this method include using a rule of thumb, an educated guess, an intuitive judgment, stereotyping, orcommon sense.
Btw, I'm not trying to argue - I'm just trying to be helpful and point out there's a simple and specific word for exactly what you're describing. If you want to keep using 'feel' well.. feel free. It's all good by me.
Hmmm... well, that does explain things pretty well. It seems like the mental process is heuristic in nature, but that I access it by feel. I'll give some more consideration to this, thanks.
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In HEM, if you filtered for Low Pairs {66-22} UTG 9handed are you winning?
In my own game how i am feeling is related to two certain key areas:
Feelings and frequencies during your session. having a good sense of villain's bluff frequencies in certain spots helps me to take the correct line - this can be both instinctive and intuitive.
Feelings and emotions, biases, tilt and awareness of mental processes. knowing when i am making a play based on sound strategy or some other factors, that may or may not be helpful. knowing how my opponent is feeling.
In both cases, this is against players that are not balanced and as such i wont be playing a balanced strategy either. When you are feelings are right, you are basically taking a maximally exploitative line due to other information/circumstances available.
Having said all this.. back to the first two 'feel' hands that came up
your 55 open UTG: surely this should be purely based on the profitability of the open. ie. how tight/loose are the players, how aggressive how do they play postflop. being 9handed do you not get 3bet and/or run into better hands too often to consider opening this hand UTG? This to me is less feel and more theoretical AND if you did open it by 'feel' it would seem its losing - you are doing it because you bored, or want to generate action.
your AQs facing shortstack open and SB 3bet: given the shortstack opening range, your 'feel' here could work well in that if you have a good grasp of the SB bluffing frequency, a small 4bet will be quite profitable if you have gained knowledge of SB's propensity to re-steal light, conversely your 'feel' may want you to snap fold pre, given SB is not capable of making those light re-steals. as such, the 'feel' part of your game would be more applicable in this spot and not the 55 open.
***
Jared Tendler in Mental Game of Poker 2 has some good material on feelings, being a 'feel' player and how they relate to your intuition when he dissected the differences between intuition, thinking and instinct - have you read his book?
your 55 open UTG: surely this should be purely based on the profitability of the open. ie. how tight/loose are the players, how aggressive how do they play postflop. being 9handed do you not get 3bet and/or run into better hands too often to consider opening this hand UTG? This to me is less feel and more theoretical AND if you did open it by 'feel' it would seem its losing - you are doing it because you bored, or want to generate action.
your AQs facing shortstack open and SB 3bet: given the shortstack opening range, your 'feel' here could work well in that if you have a good grasp of the SB bluffing frequency, a small 4bet will be quite profitable if you have gained knowledge of SB's propensity to re-steal light, conversely your 'feel' may want you to snap fold pre, given SB is not capable of making those light re-steals. as such, the 'feel' part of your game would be more applicable in this spot and not the 55 open.
Yes... with a but. When I'm at the table, I don't "know" the theoretical EV of every play I'm going to make. I don't often try to calculate these things at the table... unless it's something very simple like pot odds. I'd rather go with what I already think I know, and access that by feel. Then, when I find something better (usually away from the tables), my feel for that spot will be different. This way I can go off of feel for both 55, and AQ, and play well on a ton of tables at the same time.
It would be different if I was playing 1 table. Then I would be analyzing every possible play rather than relying on my feel, which leads to a very different style of play.
Jared Tendler in Mental Game of Poker 2
I've read the first one, but not #2.
Hi Mike, thanks for this feel video, I would like to see more of these in the near future. As for the 66 hand in CO against HJ (Jlost88) isn't 15x the raise enough odds to call to set mine? And would you fold out 66 in a live cash game in a similar spot? -- I purchased MGoP I & II before the WSOP, I just finished book one, going to start book two soon.
Hi Mike, thanks for this feel video, I would like to see more of these in the near future.
Thanks :)
As for the 66 hand in CO against HJ (Jlost88) isn't 15x the raise enough odds to call to set mine?
I consider it not enough.
And would you fold out 66 in a live cash game in a similar spot?
I can't say for sure one way or another. I'd be able to consciously take in a lot more information if I was playing live, which would allow me to make a better decision. It would depend a lot on what was similar about the situation, and what wasn't. I'm much more likely to have a read on someone that would allow me to play looser against when I'm in a live setting.
Aren't you talking about 'heuristics' more than 'feel?' It's not so much your letting your emotions or feelings dictate your play, but rather that you've developed short cuts in your decision making process (through experience, study away from the table) that allow you to make better decisions even if you aren't consciously aware of all the steps IN those decisions in the moment. While many people develop negative heuristics (availability bias, etc.,) I think that it's still a less pejorative term to poker players than 'feel,' and you might experience a little less blowback with it. Plus, I humbly submit that it's more accurate.
Sure... but "feel" still describes my process better. There are lots of amazing players that describe themselves as feel players, (such as Phil), so I don't think there's really a problem with being a feel player... I'm just describing the process of how that works.
The thing is that in game, my decisions are largely based on how I feel. And how I feel is largely based on the logic and math of the situation.
I guess what I see as different from what you and I are describing is that when you describe heuristics, it sounds that this is still an intellectual "I should do .... because of ....", and while that works, there is another way.
Whether your feel is more accurate or not depends on how skilled you are with your intuition. While I would expect the intellectual side is "more accurate" for many people, I would also expect that using intuitive feel has the potential to go farther... although it is more difficult.
No, I totally get what you're saying: you're giving a definition of a heuristic. Here's from the wikipedia entry, (note the part about intuition being a part of it):
Heuristic (/hjʉˈrɪstɨk/; Greek: "Εὑρίσκω", "find" or "discover") refers to experience-based techniques for problem solving, learning, and discovery that gives a solution which is not guaranteed to be optimal. Where the exhaustive search is impractical, heuristic methods are used to speed up the process of finding a satisfactory solution via mental shortcuts to ease the cognitive load of making a decision. Examples of this method include using a rule of thumb, an educated guess, an intuitive judgment, stereotyping, orcommon sense.
Btw, I'm not trying to argue - I'm just trying to be helpful and point out there's a simple and specific word for exactly what you're describing. If you want to keep using 'feel' well.. feel free. It's all good by me.
Hmmm... well, that does explain things pretty well. It seems like the mental process is heuristic in nature, but that I access it by feel. I'll give some more consideration to this, thanks.
thanks Mike, good job. I really like learning what your initial reaction is to your hand preflop, and then having you explain your thought process.
Really enjoyed this video and the process you go through. Look forward to more.
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