Michael Gazonda11 years, 11 months agoAt the end of this video, I bring in a new concept - "multiple ranges". I posted about it here (http://www.runitonce.com/nlhe/multiple-hand-ranges/). I'm considering making dedicated theory videos with ideas like this.
Shiro11 years, 11 months agoI can't help to notice that you're often cautious about 3-bet decisions vs early position openers in your videos Mike. Even if HEM stats shouldn't be absolute factors for making a decision, I would encourage you to use RFI stats in your popups more often (f.e. some 16/13 reg can have 5% EP RFI and 22% MP RFI while other one could be opening 15% from EP and 12% from MP - which is very valuable info we could miss otherwise, especially when mass-multi-tabling). That's just an example but trying to use more popups is something to consider imo.
Michael Gazonda11 years, 11 months agoPopups aren't something I've ever had the option of using when playing 24 tables. I agree, RFI is a great stat to use, but I'm either putting it on my HUD, or I'm not using it.
I could use it for the videos that I make, but I try to avoid going too far from how I would normally be playing and thinking.
For someone that will be using RFI stats, either on their HUD, or a popup... what you say is right on. I've used them a lot in the past, and you're making me think I should go back to putting them on my HUD.Shiro11 years, 11 months ago24 tabling means extremely short decision making, totally understandable. I'd try to get it on hud then as i find it very valuable to notice these tendencies. I find it mandatory for MSS as it's no brainer for preflop decisions. Even if it's not that crucial while playing 100BB stack, without it we can't optimize preflop decisions to the fullest - we might unconsciously end up 3betting more frequently against someone who opens 5% EP or 16% CO and miss spots against people with 20% EP or 40% CO (both villains can have almost exact VPIP/PFR). Devil in the details.
What i often see is people keeping bunch of unnecessary HEM stats on their huds (out of laziness or carelesness, maybe lack of how to set them up knowledge). Once again stats are just guidelines, but I believe optimizing our huds is something that is commonly overlooked and/or underestimated.Michael Gazonda11 years, 10 months agoYeah, I think you're right... I should add an early/middle/late RFI back on my HUD. Thanks!
Shiro11 years, 11 months agoBTW great job with equilator, working on multiple ranges and understanding them is a big step to becoming a better player. #Theorycrafting appreciated
At 32:20 you fold K4s in the BB vs 3 other players. You say it's not even close and fold . You are getting pretty great odds for a call. Don't you think calling could be an option? I'm not being results oriented and I know a tun of flops will be bad for you but just looking at the odds in a vacuum for me at least these are spots I call with high suited cards. I guess it's mostly for the flush possibility but even other run outs could potentially have us winning the pot. And also what kind of odds would you need to be calling here? Would you call if it was a minraise and there were 4 callers for example?
Michael Gazonda11 years, 11 months agoYeah, tbh, maybe you're right. I'd stopped wanting to call KXs oop in spots like that a long time ago, but I haven't looked into it in a while. My mind was set on raise or fold, and calling didn't even enter my thought process.
I don't have an answer as to the odds you need to call here, but my guess is that you need a lot if you're playing fit or fold... and that it's going to be difficult to play this hand in a way that isn't fit or fold because of the # of players, and being out of position. The only way to be happy with the hand postflop is to have 2pair+, which really makes me want to avoid playing it without the initiative... but yeah, that's just what I'm thinking here.swampstomper11 years, 9 months ago
call was really the best play, he already had $2 invested and only needs to pay $3 to win $17. I would have called with any two cards here.
oh well, it didn't cross his mind and it's a mistake i've made. No big deal.
R0b5ter11 years, 11 months agoAt the end of the video with multiple ranges. I really liked this especially after we had discussed this topic in the forums. I don't agree with folding here though. If we choose to 4bet preflop vs a shorter stack and get this kind of flop I think folding here will be very exploitable. Also the range I'd be giving him would be less high cards since most players will be 4betting hands like AK since they play better that way. The most likely range imo is AA-99 with AA and KK being less likely. And 99 being somewhat less likely because of card removal. So I'd personally hold JJ and TT as more likely in that range. Throw in some unlikely flush draws and I think it's definitely a call.
Michael Gazonda11 years, 11 months agoYeah, I guess to me I think that the possible range of my opponent holding TT/JJ there is really unlikely. If you're right, and TT/JJ are there, it's slightly +EV, and if you're wrong, calling is hugely -EV.
If your read says that TT/JJ are a big part of your opponent's range, then calling is optimal... my assumption would be that they're not a big part of my opponent's range without a read.
About the K4s hand. I'm not at all sure what's best here. And until just recently I was more inclined to fold just as you are because of the fit or fold situation. Then after watching a video that Sean had here and him talking about calling so much in the BB I started thinking more about other situations calling might also be alright just out of a pot odds situation. I've been experimenting a bit with calling in situations like these with mixed results. It's not always that you have to flop 2 pair like you say, quite often actually top pair will be enough and sometimes you can take small bluff stabs at the pot since everyone else will be playing fit/fold themselves. IT surprised me how much respect I got when betting. But of course you have to tune in on the other players and can't go out stabbing at every pot. Anyhow if in fact it's minus EV I think it's very borderline.
I can also add as a side note that Lefort's strategy of calling in the BB super wide vs steals hasn't been working out for me. Not to say it's a bad strategy probably just me who can't utilize it the right way. Think I'll start a forum post about this soon.
About the QQ hand. After thinking about this some more I think you may be right. I think this may actually be a leak I have not folding because I give people either broader ranges or slightly wrong ranges. In situations like these you also have to look at what your range looks like. Since you 3bet EP vs an UTG and then cbet it looks very much like you have an extremely strong hand so putting villain on JJ, TT is perhaps underestimating them. Problem is GTO wise it seems very exploitable to be folding everything but KK, AA or AKs here. But it might jsut be one of those situations were one can make an exploitable fold.
Anyway great video and looking forward to the next one!
Michael Gazonda11 years, 10 months agoKs6s (32:20) - I just took another look at it. I feel like that for calling with a hand like this to be +EV, you would need to have a good feel for how to play post-flop here without being fit or fold. So, like what flops are good to lead on as a bluff? When can you check/raise as a bluff? How comfortable are you going to be when you flop a K?
I don't feel comfortable with those things here... I also haven't tried to expand that part of my game. All I can say is that for me, I feel like folding there is best because I wouldn't expect to be able to make the hand +EV when I call. I'm guessing there's probably a way to do it, but yeah... just not my thing I guess.
QQ - It might be exploitable to fold here, but I'm not sure... tbh, I'm not a big game theory guy. I try to make exploitative plays when I can. I feel like that with the possible ranges that my opponent can have, and how likely I think they are... calling is just bad. GTO might say that I should call here a certain % of the time so that I don't get exploited... but that's not what I'm doing. I'm actively trying to exploit my opponents' weaknesses, and to do that, I'm going to make exploitable plays in situations where it seems unlikely for me to be exploited.
Thanks for the reply! I'm also really happy that you enjoyed the video :)
Loading 16 Comments...
I could use it for the videos that I make, but I try to avoid going too far from how I would normally be playing and thinking.
For someone that will be using RFI stats, either on their HUD, or a popup... what you say is right on. I've used them a lot in the past, and you're making me think I should go back to putting them on my HUD.
What i often see is people keeping bunch of unnecessary HEM stats on their huds (out of laziness or carelesness, maybe lack of how to set them up knowledge). Once again stats are just guidelines, but I believe optimizing our huds is something that is commonly overlooked and/or underestimated.
At 32:20 you fold K4s in the BB vs 3 other players. You say it's not even close and fold . You are getting pretty great odds for a call. Don't you think calling could be an option? I'm not being results oriented and I know a tun of flops will be bad for you but just looking at the odds in a vacuum for me at least these are spots I call with high suited cards. I guess it's mostly for the flush possibility but even other run outs could potentially have us winning the pot. And also what kind of odds would you need to be calling here? Would you call if it was a minraise and there were 4 callers for example?
I don't have an answer as to the odds you need to call here, but my guess is that you need a lot if you're playing fit or fold... and that it's going to be difficult to play this hand in a way that isn't fit or fold because of the # of players, and being out of position. The only way to be happy with the hand postflop is to have 2pair+, which really makes me want to avoid playing it without the initiative... but yeah, that's just what I'm thinking here.
call was really the best play, he already had $2 invested and only needs to pay $3 to win $17. I would have called with any two cards here.
oh well, it didn't cross his mind and it's a mistake i've made. No big deal.
If your read says that TT/JJ are a big part of your opponent's range, then calling is optimal... my assumption would be that they're not a big part of my opponent's range without a read.
About the K4s hand. I'm not at all sure what's best here. And until just recently I was more inclined to fold just as you are because of the fit or fold situation. Then after watching a video that Sean had here and him talking about calling so much in the BB I started thinking more about other situations calling might also be alright just out of a pot odds situation. I've been experimenting a bit with calling in situations like these with mixed results. It's not always that you have to flop 2 pair like you say, quite often actually top pair will be enough and sometimes you can take small bluff stabs at the pot since everyone else will be playing fit/fold themselves. IT surprised me how much respect I got when betting. But of course you have to tune in on the other players and can't go out stabbing at every pot. Anyhow if in fact it's minus EV I think it's very borderline.
I can also add as a side note that Lefort's strategy of calling in the BB super wide vs steals hasn't been working out for me. Not to say it's a bad strategy probably just me who can't utilize it the right way. Think I'll start a forum post about this soon.
About the QQ hand. After thinking about this some more I think you may be right. I think this may actually be a leak I have not folding because I give people either broader ranges or slightly wrong ranges. In situations like these you also have to look at what your range looks like. Since you 3bet EP vs an UTG and then cbet it looks very much like you have an extremely strong hand so putting villain on JJ, TT is perhaps underestimating them. Problem is GTO wise it seems very exploitable to be folding everything but KK, AA or AKs here. But it might jsut be one of those situations were one can make an exploitable fold.
Anyway great video and looking forward to the next one!
I don't feel comfortable with those things here... I also haven't tried to expand that part of my game. All I can say is that for me, I feel like folding there is best because I wouldn't expect to be able to make the hand +EV when I call. I'm guessing there's probably a way to do it, but yeah... just not my thing I guess.
QQ - It might be exploitable to fold here, but I'm not sure... tbh, I'm not a big game theory guy. I try to make exploitative plays when I can. I feel like that with the possible ranges that my opponent can have, and how likely I think they are... calling is just bad. GTO might say that I should call here a certain % of the time so that I don't get exploited... but that's not what I'm doing. I'm actively trying to exploit my opponents' weaknesses, and to do that, I'm going to make exploitable plays in situations where it seems unlikely for me to be exploited.
Thanks for the reply! I'm also really happy that you enjoyed the video :)
very nice Mike! Your discussion of multiple ranges is elightening, look forward to more!
In the 79s hand at the start (around 4.15), were you planning to triple barrel bluff a rivered club ?
Be the first to add a comment
You must upgrade your account to leave a comment.