Intuitive GTO
Posted by Daniel Dvoress
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very excited to watch this, love your vids!
Thanks!
Good video, thanks Daniel +1 for a part 2 (vs Btn?). How much work do you put in a week on this sort of thing a week? Would you recommend starting on spots with fewer combos (ie. vs CO rather than BTN)for simplicity, or spots which happen more frequently (ie. vs BTN)?
Finally, when PIO'ing a scenario such as Btn v SB 3bet pot on a K63ss board, nearly everything on the flop is some sort of mix. How would you recommend getting value from PIO here? In your example on a dry board it was a bit clear cut, but with bigger ranges it is so hard to replicate?
How much work per week I put into this sort of thing varies too much to give a meaningful answer. My schedule is a bit all over the place - sometimes I won't look at PIO or CREV for 2 weeks+, other times I'll spend 20 hours a week clicking around in PIO because I'm at an airport/airplane.
Yes, I would recommend doing spots with narrow ranges at first. Frequency of occurrence is important but spots that occur more frequently are naturally more complex because of wider ranges, so if you're just starting out it can be hard to understand things conceptually and transfer to other spots. So simplifying is the way to go.
Spots where a bunch of hands are a mix: I find PIO is valuable for a) finding out the correct frequencies (and picking a system to stay somewhat in line with those frequencies) and b) finding out what happens if you force it to take another strategy. In your example, if SB is supposed to c-bet 75-80% according to PIO, not much should change if you force it to c-bet 100% which is very useful to know.
Nice vid. I like the spots that you've chosen to analyze with PIO. Consensus used to be to look at wide range, late position stuff because they happen more often and are therefore more important. That led to too many spots where every single hand was a mix and left us guessing why PIO slightly preferred some hands over others. Turning this into a 2 street game with smaller ranges and lower stack to pot ratio gives us a much clearer picture of what is going on.
I learned quite a bit from this video and I plan on studying trees like this. I had a bunch of questions while watching this video that I'll explore on my own. How big of a difference does it make if we have CO fold all of the 2 undercard to a J hands? Would we gain EV by using a closer to geometric bet size to get all in by the river? Does it make much of a difference if we increase our aggression on an A turn by adding all of our AQ and just adding more pure bluffs?
I was confused by the low turn bet on the 3s. We had a decent advantage on the flop, villain gets to the turn with almost 100% of his range and we have to slow down on a blank? I can understand turning the 6x hands into a bluff on the higher turns but why does it like betting 68s here?
I wouldn't necessarily say that we "slow down" on a 3s turn. We have a low turn barrel frequency but this is more a matter of particular range interactions rather than that a blank is generally a good card for OOP. In narrower range spots preferences with specific hands will have a huge impact on the overall frequencies.
Here we see that PIO has a pretty strict preference for checking AA, JJ, AK, AQ - all because of specific ways these hands interact with hands in villain's range, and how those would play (as opposed to betting or checking based on, say, equity). The only really surprising part of that is AA - the rest I think you would agree should be checked. Altogether, that sums up to 41 combos that want to check. When you get to the turn with 180 combos in total, that's a pretty huge swing.
With regards to 86s, I agree this is rather surprising. Unfortunately I don't have the tree handy, but going to the the 86s still has good equity against villain's range. So the bet is for rare value/protection. 86s plays rather poorly as a check (not a great bluffcatcher, freerolling villain's overcards sucks, we can't value bet the river after it goes check/check). So we end up preferring to bet it. Why we bet 86s and not, for example, 77? I would guess it mostly has to do with 86s being able to valuebet on 5 rivers instead of 3.
Great vid as always. Looking forward to part two.
Thanks!
great video daniel :) how often do you work on such gametrees and do you write your heuristics down to look at during play?
Thank you!
My work on stuff like this comes in spurts, so I'm not sure I can give a meaningful answer. In short/vague terms as much as I can without it having a huge opportunity cost to playing.
Yes, I have a notepad and sticky notes on which I scribble down stuff to look at while I play. I briefly experimented with recording my thoughts on audio while playing, thinking it would be less of a distraction, but didn't like it because it didn't feel natural.
first hand-isnt CO low flop fold % indicative that were sizing our cbet too small? couldnt we cbet a v simialr range for say half pot and put more of his hands to a closer decision?
This would definitely be true with deeper stacks but given how easily we can get in by the river without overbetting it's not necessarily true here. After all, PIO still c-bets ~100% even with the small sizing with very little FE. I don't think there would be too much of a difference in EV between 1/3rd 1/2 pot c-bet on this board.
Betting bigger wouldn't put more of his hands to a closer decision, as a lot of his hands already do have a close decision. It would just make hands that are close now folds, and make other hands close, so the only thing it would be doing is getting more folds. Not a bad thing, but not a clear cut positive on this board either.
This is one of the, if not the best PIO videos i've seen. Really hope you do a part 2!
Thank you!
I always wondered why GTO likes to barrel with Ad,Kd,Qd on a 2 diamond board. You explained it so beautifully. Thank you sir.
Thank you!
Loved it, cant wait for the next one !!
Thanks!
Very nice video,
For my part I really liked that we see different run down and how it affects the way PIO suggest we play our range. Also, good job on explaining the why you think PIO plays its range.
If I may suggest for the future video of this kind, it would be nice to see more turn and river rundown and how it affects how we play our range. It helps a lot to understand the dynamics of our range.
Thanks for you video, gl
My next video (should be released within about a week) looks at river play exclusively.. It's not a continuation of this one and the bulk of it is toy gaming, but gives a lot of insight into GTO river strat. If you have time to watch it, while going through it think about appropriate turn strategies and what kind of range you would like to get to the river with. I think it might answer some questions you have, although again not exclusively designed to do so.
Great video man! looking forward to next
Thank you!
great video as always
Thanks!
Great vid Daniel! Always enjoy your easy to digest style.
Quick question regarding cbetting A4/A5/A9s hands. At 30:50 you say it goes without saying that you check/fold A4/A5/A9 type hands on the Td turn. If you're always getting peeled on the flop is it still wise to cbet these hands on the flop? I'm assuming cbetting these hands allows you to rep Ax, barrel draws, etc. but seems like they don't pick up equity too often and you'd be check/folding a high percentage of turns. Can you go over your thoughts on cbetting these hands in this spot?
Edit: Just saw the next part of vid where the A turns. So it seems like you cbet Axs type hands in order to protect your bluff catchers on Ax turns (i.e. 99-TT type hands) and allow yourself to barrel broadways. Additionally, you can barrel flush draws. Intuitively I would think that A turns are going to occur so infrequently (ard 5%) that you'd be check folding the turn at a very high percentage.
The T turn just happens to be one of the worst ones for A4 (along with a Q, K isn't great either but less so). Hitting the A is rare, but the wheel cards are good for us which gives us another dozen "outs", and we'll get to win the pot on other random turns as well with a small frequency.
I liked this video very much.
PS.: My comment is also supposed to further encourage more parts from this series.
Noted :)
(Talking about the Td Turn)
The whole frequencies are obviously based on the fact, that the CO is only folding 9% on the flop and the valueranges would probably be different on the turn (beting AJ and checking QJ probably more, just because villains range frequencywise include more hands AJ does not want to give a freecard to I guess?)
Would you even concider that people know that spot so well, that they only fold 9% and we should stick to that strategy or should we exploit the pool until we see somebody calling nearly the whole range and then adjust to that and play GTO?
In other words, in that spot, wouldn't the intuitive play the best for the pool to use and being aware of that being an exploit is obviously and advantage?
After this video that is probably not true any more ^^. Great vid, thank you!
Hi,
I'm not sure I'm fully following the question. Are you saying that people overfold and therefore we should be both going tighter for value on the turn, and also bluffing less? Generally.you should always be playing exploitatively if you know how your opponents deviate from optimal play,.so yes. However, if you're not sure, sticking to ~GTO is the way to go. Note that if you play GTO here, you will only make a mistake on the turn if your opponent made a mistake on the the flop (I'm talking about overall range vs. range strategies).
Great video, very helpful and gets you thinking about a lot of interesting ideas. Please continue with videos like this
Thank you. I enjoy videos of this format so if you guys do too you'll see more of them in the future.
great video,
at min 52:00 what is the reason Pio wants IP to bet when check to more often with hands like KQ, QT than KT which is almost always check back for CO.
Thanks for answer
Good question.
If you look at the OOP turn barrel strategy, he mostly bets KJ and mostly checks QJ. So the Q blocker is better than a K blocker for CO.
awful translate to russian,jewish accent,translation on the go,background is heard the original
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