Introduction to GTO: Bluffing Rivers (Part 2)

Posted by

You’re watching:

Introduction to GTO: Bluffing Rivers (Part 2)

user avatar

Vincent V

Essential Pro

Video Player is loading.
Current Time 0:00
Loaded: 0%
Duration -:-
Remaining Time 0:00
  • descriptions off, selected

Resume Video

Start from Beginning

Watch Video

Replay Video

10

You’re watching:

Introduction to GTO: Bluffing Rivers (Part 2)

user avatar

Vincent V

POSTED May 28, 2015

Vincent looks to tie some of the concepts together from part 1 as he goes deeper into his GTO explanation.

21 Comments

Loading 21 Comments...

So_Nitty 9 years, 9 months ago

I think understanding this will be a big step towards becoming a better poker play in all of my games. Is it completely different than trying to maintain good frequencies for betting every street? If we aim to c bet for example 65% of the time we choose our obvious value hands first and then strong draws....then perhaps back door draws or bottom pairs...so the very bottom of our 65% range are our bluffs or are they very very thin value bets?

Tomasmartinsson 9 years, 9 months ago

Is this really the right frequencies? Isn't it 40% bluffs when you 2x the pot? And the right bluffingfrequencie is the same as the pot odds you give villain?
In your example this would mean 28% bluffs with a 2/3 bet?

cancios 8 years, 6 months ago

Yes, but he said 0.4 for every value combo (0.4/1.4 = 28.6% bluffs), not 40% bluffs.
Anyway, there are 75.6 combos, 21.6 bluffs and 54 value. 21.6/75.6 = 28.6% bluffs.

Sharegrave 9 years, 9 months ago

You have to take into account many factors imo,however the issue of what sizing to take is essential.Furthermore u start constructing ur range from the river to determine the value/bluff ratio needed,meaning depending on the sizing u chose ur value/bluff ratio will change accordingly.If u bet the flop with a polarized range 34% of ur flop bets must be for value with a psb of 0,75 on all 3 streets.

Kbalzara 9 years, 9 months ago

Can someone please explain me this:
Ev of villans call= frequency of hero's bluffing * (1+2s) - s, so what that "s" on the end means? is that s amount that villan need's to call?

Leighton Acheson 9 years, 9 months ago

In practice a lot of our opponents bluffcatchers will be pairs in a lot of spots. How would you block those without having a bluffcatcher/value hand ourselves?

In your K7238r example would I be right in thinking that, if we got to the river with them this way, hands like QJ or T9 would be the best bluffing hands? I'm thinking that QJ blocks KQ and KJ which might play this way and T9 blocks pocket pairs which are potential bluffcatchers and could play this way on all streets. Does this make sense?

209twitch 9 years, 8 months ago

so in the beginning, to clarify....you're saying if villain bluffs too many rivers, then calling with 100% of our bluff catchers is +EV?

Vincent V 9 years, 8 months ago

Assuming the same sizing is used in every hand and you win with all your bluffcatchers, then yes, calling 100% is +EV from a GTO perspective. In reality however people switch gears and adjust, and if you would start calling every single time, villain is likely to notice and start bluffing less. That's why you only want to adjust slightly, so that villain's leak in that spot remains persistent.

moreaal 8 years, 5 months ago

from the slides: tot Rewards = pot + hero bet + villan s call = 1 + 2s

shouldn t the call NOT be included in this formula? and so P(bluff) = S/(1+S)?
If I am bluffcatching, I risk the call (S) to win the pot + the bet, so 1+S; isn t it a mistake to include the call in the formula?

Tap85 8 years, 5 months ago

Example number 3 we bet 100 into 140 and villain raises to 320 S=220/340 = 0.65. Don't understand where 340 comes from? Presumed size of pot would be 140+our 100 bet+ his 320 so S would =220/560

moreaal 8 years, 5 months ago

no: when you raise 320 total, you raise additional 220 after calling 100; when you call 100, the pot is 140 pot + 100 bet + 100 call part of the raise = 340, so you risk 220 (additional raise) to win the pot = 340

it s similar when you say that you raise the pot; say there is a pot of 1, a bet of 1; your pot size raise will be 4, where you call 1 (to create a pot of 3) and raise additional 3 to win 3

gogi1986 8 years ago

Thanks for the video Vincent. But i think i found a mistake(not a big one but perhaps some of the viewers might be a bit irritated). In your video (starting at 4:04) at point 3 ) you have written the formula "Reward=pot + hero's Bet + villain's Call= 1+2s"!
Now this is only true for Pot=1!!. For the last point in 5) the Potsize doesn't matter , since EV =0. But for a better understanding for the viewers i would say 3 and 4 should be corrected : 3) Reward=Pot(1+2s)
4) EV(call)=(P(bluff)
(1+2s)-s)*Pot
Its a bit nitty but i hope you understand what i mean!

moreaal 8 years ago

It is easier to consider pot = 1 and the size bet as a fraction of the pot = 1; for instance, if pot = 3 and bet = 2, you can simplify to pot = 1 and bet = 2/3, it is easier for the formulas

kingkong 7 years, 9 months ago

At 3:28, if the pot is 100$, a bet is 50$ and S = 50/100, when the raise is 200$ for a pot of 150$, should it not be S= 200$/150$ ?

oglox 6 years ago

No because the raise is $200 but the real raise is $150 because he paid your $50 raise and add another $150(villain re-raise - your raise, $200-$50 = $150). so the pot is = $100 (original pot) + $ 50(your raise) + $50 (the one the villain paid excluding the real raise) so the result is s = $150/$200 = 0.75

Be the first to add a comment

You must upgrade your account to leave a comment.

Runitonce.com uses cookies to give you the best experience. Learn more about our Cookie Policy