PLO MTTs Broke my Brain: $5k PLO PGT Final Table Review
Posted by Horseofhell
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Let Jesus take the wheel bro
Got me lolll real hard.
And the funny part is he is nice enough to show after BU mucks xD
I'm going to defend all four of Juhasz's preflop decisions that came up (17m, 28m, 53m, 56m) here; someone correct me if my thinking is off.
First (17:30) the AQ84ss: he is second in chips, has the two short stacks of 7bb and 10bb to his left, a 23bb medium stack on BTN, the chip leader in the SB, and a likely recreational medium stack in the BB.
His hand blocks 3bets, he can raise/call vs the short stacks, and only has to fade Collopy deciding to do something from the SB, from where this is least likely to occur. With a 1bb ante the AQ84 probably isn't even that far off chip EV anyway (?) so I actually like this open.
Same story with the KQJ8ss (28m). Not having the ace blocker obv makes this worse, but since we aren't getting 3bet with anything like the same frequency as a cash game, and all the same stack size dynamics and positions as above still apply (2 <10bb stacks to direct left; CL in the SB; rec in the BB) I can get behind this open as well.
53m: Now we have the disciplined fold from the CO with the AK66ss! Which demonstrates that Juhasz has situational awareness, because it's a completely different spot: Wantman on the BTN covers him, the shortest stack has already folded, and it's the CL in the BB who can be expected to play very tough.
56m: Once again he is picking his spot with an ace blocker, Collopy in the SB, and the shorty who can bust in the BB, making Wantman and Tran also more likely to get out of the way. Idk if this open is necessarily correct or not, but as we see from the way the these hands have played out, getting HU with the BB is going to be +EV here.
Finally, a comment on the last hand (58m). There are many recreational MTT players who play exactly like Tourevski does in this video, and I suspect Collopy is much more in tune with this than you are.
If the graphics are right the flop SPR is ~1.2, and with only bare middle pair + bdnfd, Collopy makes a tough but disciplined explo fold. Notice how Tourevski shows his hand to Collopy after Collopy folds: "see I had it bro, wasn't bluffing you, good fold". This also happens a lot in live tournaments (even 5k FTs!) and probably means Collopy has more info on his tendencies than you might realize.
So in the moment I think I very often come across more strongly/confident than I actually am about spots especially in MTTs where nobody really knows what's going on haha
AQ84ss: I agree with your points on this one I'm not sure why I dismissed it so strongly in the moment. It's not super far off of chipEV like you said and I agree with your arguments
KQJ8ss: Ehh I still don't like this one. I think in hindsight looking at how this table played and general passiveness of everyone it probably turned out fine (which of course he might have been aware of I mean this final table didn't happen in a vacuum and he was playing with a lot of these guys for hours prior) but in general I think with the stacks being as shallow as they are this hand just performs too poorly to make it +EV IMO.
AK66ss: Completely agree with you here mentioned that a little later in the video as well!
AQ45ss: Agreed with you here
58:00: Yeah I think that's certainly a possibility. I forget if it's in this part or the next part but at some point I said something along the lines of "Maybe I'm the MTT whale all along" and I was only half joking when I said that. I think there's definitely some stuff that these guys do that ends up being good against population. I've not seen these guys play enough PLO to make that definitive statement though and to draw the conclusion that there's good exploitative stuff going on I would have to see more/play them myself. Though that said, the general vibe from the FT I got was that almost everyone was just really passive which does weigh more towards fold being good of course
I loved how unfiltered you were for this one, plus I find it useful to get your first thoughts when facing a spot (similar to playing). Defintely do not watch them beforehand if you do similar content.
Ideally, I would have liked to see a few preflop sims for some of the spots. At the end of the video or on the next part.
On the AK87 vs T854 hand doesn't having the As incline SB more toward a check OTT because it's harder for the opponent to have anything to call with when we block every strong hand there is?
I think the opponent can certainly have plenty stuff to call with. Lower flushes mainly. I think all of those are snap checking back and probably never valuebetting river if we check twice. I also think they fold river probably if we bet and jam river since we donked into a bunch of people, but nonetheless I think we can get 1 more street of value that we don't really get as much otherwise IMO
Thanks for doing some tourney analysis! I liked that you hadn't prewatched it. Got some good reactions!
Do you find tournies to be profitable or is the variance too high to forgoe cash play for a higher volume of tourney play?
The plo tournies I have played in have had a lot of limping in the early and middle stages. This applies to straight plo and plo as part of an 8 game mix. If you face a lot of limping, is it ok to limp behind a fair bit, or should you maintain a more solid preflop strat and look to iso a lot?
Is open limping something to consider? I think it complicates things a bit.
48:55 if Wantman had ak82sdhh do you think he should still get some leads for value but also for future bluffing ability with the As?
Looking forward to the next part!
I for sure do think PLO MTTs are very profitable. Variance is going to be killer for sure though. ROI is insanely high if you're good though so that balances it out a bit. I think if theres some live series available near where you live that has some PLO MTTs its usually gonna be worth it.
re: limping it honestly depends so much on the stage of the tournament. Early on I'm definitely gonna be aggressive going after weaker players isoing etc but later on when stacks are more shallow you can't really go too crazy so you gotta also be limping behind some hands but I wouldn't play an absurd amount of hands usually.
Yeah I turbo lead AK82:As!ss I don't really consider this bet 'value' though. If I donk this one I'm just donking cuz of the future A blocker like you said but also I think the K is just a good blocker to the continuing range
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