4 Table Midstakes Shallow 6-Max PLO (Part 2)

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4 Table Midstakes Shallow 6-Max PLO (Part 2)

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Jack Mitchell

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4 Table Midstakes Shallow 6-Max PLO (Part 2)

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Jack Mitchell

POSTED Dec 13, 2014

Jack continues the review of his play on shallow PLO tables.

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Pplbamba 10 years, 3 months ago

55 min table 2 KsTsQh9h:

Difficult spot, against a 4-bet range of 6%,aa generally you have about 31%-33% on the flop, and you only need about 28% to call. However if he is planning on shoving every turn and you are planning on calling strictly when you have 27% equity against this 4 bet range (which you will likely make at least minor mistakes against) you will be calling turn about 40% and the most equity you can hope for on average is 50%, which means that the best you can do on average is
(.6)(-88)+(.4)(your share of pot when you get it in with 50% on the turn-what you invest to get to that point) or (336-270)
(.6)(-88)+(.4)(66)=about -26
so against your actual hand it looks like his strategy of betting the flop and shoving any turn works decently well and that exploitatively if you are at all confident he will do what he did, you can lean your range towards calling the flop with a few more slightly strong hands that you might otherwise shove and take advantage of the fact that he will be shoving every turn-also if you are confident you have no fold equity you can call flop with a few more hands with clearer visibility and just have him get it in dead or allow you to fold against the worst turn cards

Pplbamba 10 years, 3 months ago

actually in those spots where you have at least 27% on the turn it looks like you more often you have on average 55% against his range so 100(.4)-(.6)(88)= -12 so slightly less negative but still losing

Jack Mitchell 10 years, 3 months ago

Thanks for taking the time out to do some calcs and the clear breakdown... certainly felt close given the price on the flop, I just wanted a more exact analysis, appreciate it! Pretty wierd spot as none of my options seem great!
In terms of long term strategies when calling his flop c-bet in similar spots; if we were deeper I would certainly be flatting with my very strong made hands/drawing hands with lots of clean outs (sets, top 2, pair+open ender, wraps etc.). Then our opponents can't just go crazy double barrelling with us being unbalanced; knowing we are flatting with weaker parts of our range, jamming our strongest. Likewise if we can be flatting with strong drawing hands rather than trying to push our equity, on lots of boards he'll have to check turns that change the texture, which means we could also get away with some looser floats and cheaper stabs. Also reduces variance and allows us to play tougher IP; often see people going crazy when deep and hugely bloating pots when there's a lot of merit to pot controlling and seeing future streets.
As I say in the vid, in this particular situation, I felt I had essentially 0 fold equity, so would've probably just jammed with the top parts of my range given I expected to be called pretty much always; that probably makes my flat exploitable in the long run, but this was a pretty unique situation.

Chavdar Georgieff 10 years, 3 months ago

14:00 m w T986 I really do not understand this play: u check to a 40 BB stack HU w a second pair gut shot and FD with the intention to CALL?Why?I could see c/r as an option but id rather bet out and get it in on the turn or flop if raised to

Jack Mitchell 10 years, 2 months ago

Hey,
I replayed this spot to myself and realised I may have made mistake, because I made it again! I've been playing a lot of zoom (plo50, 100 and 200) recently, so sometimes when I'm looking at stack sizes my brain automatically thinks of it as x amount of bbs, obviously in this case $200 is 40bbs, not 100+!
So I think this was just a mistake of my analysis in this spot given our opponent was shallow. There is some merit to checking here if we have a specific read on our opponent that he will go crazy when checked too, as our hand is doing well against a range that has some 0 equity bluffs thrown in there. The footage was recorded quite a while ago, so I'm not entirely sure what I was thinking at the time; if I was going for a check/call in this spot, I don't think it's a really bad mistake but not the best option.
Bet evaluating is fine; given we're only up against a 40bb stack I don't think I can fold this hand unless we have some sick read. I think check raising is probably the most viable option; get a stab out of hands that would be folding to a bet, and we get to apply more pressure forcing more money in. Hand doesn't have the best visibility on lots of turns so don't want to c/c and get blown off our hand, but have good equity against a decent chunk of his range that will get it in with us.
Thanks for pointing this out!

superbad 10 years, 3 months ago

7:10ish if you're going to take that line with AK84ss (flat to induce squeeze, then back 4b) if BT flats 60 why not click back to 105 to let bb 5b all in for 153 where button now knows betting is reopened for you to 6b shove? Potting yourself to allow him to call IP doesn't make much sense to me unless you think he's going to overfold flop with very very low spr (doesn't fit description of sticky).

Jack Mitchell 10 years, 2 months ago

Hi,
It's quite an unorthodox line that is definitely worth considering! As I discussed in the video, I flatted in the SB with a plan in mind, however after the action that took place and I gave it some thought, I think folding is best (probably should've just folded to the button open!). Equity wise, my hand in this particular spot isn't really crushing a range that consists of any four cards…When I describe the opponent as sticky and stubborn, this is more in reference to his pre flop play; it seemed like any opportunity to get large amounts in pre he would take! Obviously with this style of play, he's folding virtually no flops as the spr is so low he's being priced in with pretty much anything that has some equity.
The sizing you discussed is certainly an interesting option and one that I think could work pretty well; against tighter players, they will be in a very tricky spot pre which means I could do it somewhat wider if the squeezer will be jamming fairly light. As I said before, in this case I would want a more premium hand given our buttons pre flop calling range; if we have premium combos and the same action takes place, he will likely just flat the bb shove and then I can just jam over the top allowing me to get a larger % of my stack in pre with the best hand. It may also make opponents think twice before opening light/trying to make moves to isolate in multiway pots if we can be getting tricky.

Don Q 10 years, 3 months ago

23min top left if you know he has high cards and you have position why not just call so you can fold QJT flops etc

Jack Mitchell 10 years, 2 months ago

Hey,
Given he only had $36.90 behind and there would be just shy $130 in the middle if I flatted pre, although there are some terrible boards such as you mentioned, I would have to flop very bad to want to fold (even backdoor flush and straighdraws, as well as pair outs all equate to having some equity in the hand and I may benefit from seeing an entire run out rather than being forced to fold).
One thing that I often note and think is important is whether people run it twice or not...I would rather see two complete boards against a high card heavy range; if the first board hits him hard it's more likely the second will be better for us, so I have a much better chance of chopping it up, and so be winning slightly picking up half the dead money.

Zuzupet 10 years, 3 months ago

Love the your videos and love you taking the time to explain your thoughprocess though out the hands. Also like you throw up a discussion on though spots like the 4b pot with nut gutter + 2 Backdoorsflushdraws. Keep them videos coming in same format plz. ;:)

lofigr 10 years, 3 months ago

When fashion journalist asked in Manchester discoteque some fashion concious what to wear that season he got this answer:

Wear Gucci, Armani, Dolce e Gabbana, Gianni Versace, Valentino and nothing else!

Meaning: just this regarding PLO and nothing else...

texasflood2 7 years, 6 months ago

I know this class was 3 years ago, but if someone decides to watch I think that I solved the math problem with KQT9ds on 55 min table 2:

I will work with this range to villain ($4b2,AA) what I think that is tight enough based on that Jack said about the villain.

So we will call $88,00 to see the turn. And on the turn we need to invest $182,65 to won $673,20. Pot odds = 27,1%

In other words, we need to have at least 27,1% on the turn to our move be breakeven.

ProPokerTools said in 3199 trials: How often do(es) PLAYER_1 have hand vs. range equity of at least 27.1% on the turn 42,3882%

So now we know that hero will call 42,40% and will fold 57,6%.
Call% = 42,4% fold% = 57,6%

Now we need to discover the average equity of hero when he calls on the turn:

Based on what PPT said the average equity of hero on the turn when he calls is: 51.16%

Profit = (Pot final * AE - call flop - call turn)
Profit = (673,3 * 0,5116 - 88 - 182,65)
Profit = ($73,81)

EV = (Profit * Call%) + (Fold * Fold%)
EV = (73,81 * 0,424) + (-88 * 0,576)
EV = - $19,39

In bb/100 that move is -969bb/100

So call on the flop isn't profitable.

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