Hi,
Re comments - thanks very much :)
Re suggestions - will keep cash game livestream in mind but its not an area where I have much recent experience so I've tried to direct focus towards those formats where I do, if I play a bunch in Vegas or w/e can certainly reevaluate though. In terms of WSOP advice, any particular area you were thinking of or specific questions you'd like to see answered?
I see that using 50% xr size vs the 33% stab leaves spr ~ 1 for the turn. Do you find that OOP the solver chooses to use the smallest xr sizings otf that would allow for a 2 street game (i.e. reducing spr to 1 with smallest xr sizing possible)? This makes me assume the OOP plan ott would be to use pot(AI) or check without any use of medium sizings.
I ask this because I feel like as the IP player I am inclined to force OOP to play as many streets as possible and am thus more likely to use smaller sizings, whereas when I am OOP I tend to be more inclined to use larger sizings if it will allow me to reduce the # of streets played. Is my approach fundamentally flawed?
The general idea of prolonging the betting IP and shortening it OOP is definitely fine and something you see happn in Solverland (although whether bc it attaches strategic importance to that concept or as a coincidental feature of the equilibrium determined by other factors is ofc tough to say).
As to your first question, I cant answer definitively, but based on other work with some degree of relevance to this situation I'd imagine you'd likely see some sizing shifts along the lines you mention on the more static boards (less likely on dynamic textures where equity denial assumes wider and greater relevance), however flop sizings shift less in response to SPR than turn sizings, presumably bc you still have more room to manoevre in order to be able to make an all-in bet on river, which is something that does seem to impact sizings significantly.
Richard Gryko There is an iPhone equity calc app for NL I stumbled upon many years ago that has an option to "deal to flop" or "deal to turn" as they called it. What it did was allow the user to choose if the calculations should be run to assume the game ended on the flop or turn or river, or if a flop was already present, to run equity calcs for only a turn card to come. Anyways, I always thought this was such a simple, yet extremely relevant concept both for NL and PLO.......BUT I've never really been sure how to apply it. Here are some screenshots to show you what I'm referencing. The app is called PkrCruncher. I was wondering if you think any insight can be gained, not from using this specific app, but from thinking about PLO equities on a street-by-street basis as opposed to showdown equity?
Hi, I could ofc be missing something, but I'm not sure theres a ton of mileage in that area because I dont see where it would fit in a decision making/strategy building framework, and, other than the relatively intuitive "draws do better vs made hands when more cards remain to be dealt", I also dont see any more general insights you can glean - hands with high equity could be poor candidates to bet with and vice versa, and the general problem with thinking street by street is (as any monker sim accidentally run without turns/rivers - and I've run more than I intended to :/ - will demonstrate) that it ends up overvaluing those high equity low "playability" type hands. Street-by-street functions that could be of some use would be things that clearly lead to implementable data, such as "how often do both players have a given range on a given flop/turn/riv?", "what is the current range v range equity/polarity situation?" and so on.
Another insightful video!
It would be interesting to look into Turn and possibly River strategies similar to the paired board series you did in the past. Since every part of our range has many options on different turns and we have to make sure to include slowplays and bluffs in every line...
As a sidenote I had to smile at the part where you happily showcase that our x/c range still has the strongest combos in it without mentioning that they only make up 2.5% of our range ... kind if reminds me of pokerstars promoting their rewards without mentioning the actual RB :)
More seriously, I get the point re those hands occurring infrequently, but I think anytime an action is taken basically always with a given range, it offers a clue as to the solvers "thought process", which is the real win in any investigation. Also, a little bit like the book writer who researches a ridiculously obscure topic as background and as a result becomes determined to find a way to shoehorn it into their work, if I have to dig for half an hour to find something that goes on with a subrange we have 0.3% of the time, you better believe you're gonna hear about it in a video :)
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Lol yeah I’d say it’s of use. Another amazing video
any kind of wsop footage with your commentary like the 25k Plo series would be awesome
Hi,
Re comments - thanks very much :)
Re suggestions - will keep cash game livestream in mind but its not an area where I have much recent experience so I've tried to direct focus towards those formats where I do, if I play a bunch in Vegas or w/e can certainly reevaluate though. In terms of WSOP advice, any particular area you were thinking of or specific questions you'd like to see answered?
I see that using 50% xr size vs the 33% stab leaves spr ~ 1 for the turn. Do you find that OOP the solver chooses to use the smallest xr sizings otf that would allow for a 2 street game (i.e. reducing spr to 1 with smallest xr sizing possible)? This makes me assume the OOP plan ott would be to use pot(AI) or check without any use of medium sizings.
I ask this because I feel like as the IP player I am inclined to force OOP to play as many streets as possible and am thus more likely to use smaller sizings, whereas when I am OOP I tend to be more inclined to use larger sizings if it will allow me to reduce the # of streets played. Is my approach fundamentally flawed?
The general idea of prolonging the betting IP and shortening it OOP is definitely fine and something you see happn in Solverland (although whether bc it attaches strategic importance to that concept or as a coincidental feature of the equilibrium determined by other factors is ofc tough to say).
As to your first question, I cant answer definitively, but based on other work with some degree of relevance to this situation I'd imagine you'd likely see some sizing shifts along the lines you mention on the more static boards (less likely on dynamic textures where equity denial assumes wider and greater relevance), however flop sizings shift less in response to SPR than turn sizings, presumably bc you still have more room to manoevre in order to be able to make an all-in bet on river, which is something that does seem to impact sizings significantly.
Richard Gryko There is an iPhone equity calc app for NL I stumbled upon many years ago that has an option to "deal to flop" or "deal to turn" as they called it. What it did was allow the user to choose if the calculations should be run to assume the game ended on the flop or turn or river, or if a flop was already present, to run equity calcs for only a turn card to come. Anyways, I always thought this was such a simple, yet extremely relevant concept both for NL and PLO.......BUT I've never really been sure how to apply it. Here are some screenshots to show you what I'm referencing. The app is called PkrCruncher. I was wondering if you think any insight can be gained, not from using this specific app, but from thinking about PLO equities on a street-by-street basis as opposed to showdown equity?
Hi, I could ofc be missing something, but I'm not sure theres a ton of mileage in that area because I dont see where it would fit in a decision making/strategy building framework, and, other than the relatively intuitive "draws do better vs made hands when more cards remain to be dealt", I also dont see any more general insights you can glean - hands with high equity could be poor candidates to bet with and vice versa, and the general problem with thinking street by street is (as any monker sim accidentally run without turns/rivers - and I've run more than I intended to :/ - will demonstrate) that it ends up overvaluing those high equity low "playability" type hands. Street-by-street functions that could be of some use would be things that clearly lead to implementable data, such as "how often do both players have a given range on a given flop/turn/riv?", "what is the current range v range equity/polarity situation?" and so on.
tyvm
Another insightful video!
It would be interesting to look into Turn and possibly River strategies similar to the paired board series you did in the past. Since every part of our range has many options on different turns and we have to make sure to include slowplays and bluffs in every line...
As a sidenote I had to smile at the part where you happily showcase that our x/c range still has the strongest combos in it without mentioning that they only make up 2.5% of our range ... kind if reminds me of pokerstars promoting their rewards without mentioning the actual RB :)
More seriously, I get the point re those hands occurring infrequently, but I think anytime an action is taken basically always with a given range, it offers a clue as to the solvers "thought process", which is the real win in any investigation. Also, a little bit like the book writer who researches a ridiculously obscure topic as background and as a result becomes determined to find a way to shoehorn it into their work, if I have to dig for half an hour to find something that goes on with a subrange we have 0.3% of the time, you better believe you're gonna hear about it in a video :)
Nice, a comment on my video. Mood :)
Hey, he called it "insightful"! Mood :))
Wait, did...did I just get compared to Pokerstars? Mood :((((
Excellent video! Thank you for making it!
Hi Richard Gryko, nice video! What does solver do with nut flush blocker hands on the flushing turn after XR gets called on 632 FD Flop?
4 years later, still one of the best videos on site!
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