Forum Q&A (Part 4): Leading Turns

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Forum Q&A (Part 4): Leading Turns

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Richard Gryko

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Forum Q&A (Part 4): Leading Turns

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Richard Gryko

POSTED May 08, 2019

Richard Gryko explores the question "Why lead at all?" and falls back on solver suggestions, nomenclature of the terms themselves, and empirical evidence to reach his conclusions.

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porshy 5 years, 10 months ago

Leading OTT kind a implies to me that we check-called the flop and then bet the turn. So that is the information that is additionaly provided with the phrase..
Although if the flop gets checked through do we say lead?
Watching all the stuff here, by memory I would say that mostly it is said bet then... Not sure..

Richard Gryko 5 years, 10 months ago

Right, and in this instance yeah we XC flop, but we could also "donk" or "lead" flop (tbh that would be a better example of my point) - OOP bet after flop chkthrough can be termed a "probe", but that terminology is more neutral, I think the main point I wanted to get across was that the historical perception of betting as OOP into a player who took the last aggressive action on the previous street being somehow unwise can result in a kind of mental game issue where some people are reluctant to incorporate such actions, hence why solvers, who lack that emotional baggage, find such bets at a far higher frequency than even strong human players in the pre-solver era.

Lausbub 5 years, 10 months ago

great video richard, as always. whats with the quads going on @min 21:35 I know we have them very low freq on turn but I dont get the sizing choice and what are the bluffs?

Richard Gryko 5 years, 10 months ago

Do you mean the combos showing up in the larger sizings? I wouldnt really take much notice given how little use other betsizes get overall - if the split were even enough that b67 or b100 made up a chunk of our overall volume, id start to consider having more than one betsize, but in this case given that b33 is like 85% of our overall frequency I'd just ignore it for ease of implementation - were I for whatever reason to use the sizing, it seems focused around semibluffs with no showdown value and then the stronger full house/quads combos for value, so basically the greater polarity you'd expect to see from a larger betsize.

Alien Slayer 5 years, 10 months ago

Great video as usual, just way too short :/
Mike should set up a clause that obliges you to do videos of at least 45min length!

So after a couple of years of solver work, I imagine you present yourself by:” Hi, my name is Richard and I am a cold blooded EV hunter !”

Back to topic, what left me curious are the frequencies of the different categories that we use for betting the turn as the preflop caller after having check/called a flop bet of the preflop raiser ( I hope that that’s the politically correct way of avoiding terms that may deemed ignorant nowadays) . So for example how many of our 2p + straight blockers are we leading on the Qs ? Or how many weak combo draws are we leading on the pairing turn compared to x/f ... that would make up an interesting in depth strategic analysis IMO.

Richard Gryko 5 years, 10 months ago

Hahaha, I dont, but I might start, thats a pretty imposing self-intro. Congrats on the woke phraseology :p, basically the 2pr hand class leads at a lower freq in absolute terms, but it occurs more often in our range, so it prob makes up a decent amount of our total leading range, the no showdown value combo draws lead at a higher freq but they occur less often, so it somewhat balances out.

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