On the Tc Ad 2d 3c board you were talking about that over betting the turn here is a good strategy which I like as well, but I'm curious as to how we go about balancing this..I think over betting turn here is good because we apply max pressure on our opponents bluff catching range which will most likely result in a fold but why would we play our value hands this way if our opponent is folding a lot here? Would we just do it with our 45 off suit combos and not our 45s combos and sets? I'm just curious how we would go about balancing and not losing value on our big hands.
Hiya. I think you're combining a game theory concept with an exploitative strategy concept and that's creating some confusion.
If we're betting bigger, our opponent is supposed to fold more. Essentially, his minimum defense frequency (MDF, check out some of my first videos for a full explanation) is going to be lower as our bet-size increases. But that doesn't mean he should now fold out all his bluff-catchers like you seem to indicate. If he folds more than he should due to our larger bet-size, that's great.. our bluffs will profit a ton. Sure, our value hands no longer make as much money, but our bluffs make so much that our range in it's entirety still benefits more as a whole thanks to him over-folding.
If you want to start a mixed strategy of betting larger with bluffs (to get him to fold), and smaller with value (to get him to call), then you're applying an exploitative concept in hopes that your opponent doesn't realize what you're doing and you get to maximally exploit his mistakes. To be frank, this strategy tends not to do so well in mid+ stakes online anymore, so I would refrain from making it your default approach.
The reason betting bigger on the turn as a GTO strategy is likely better than betting smaller is because of the dynamics of the situation, given that we're quite polarized and playing against a very non-robust non-polarized range that models well as simple bluff-catchers. Thus, we take advantage by maximizing the amount of hands we can bluff with (with a larger bet-size) and subsequently, minimizing the amount of hands we have to give up with. In theory, he should call enough to make our bluffs indifferent and this strategy will maximize our value hands (because our bets were bigger and we will make more volume overall). However, in practice we'll often encounter players that will have trouble responding well to the strategy and will overfold or underfold, both resulting in us making even more money. In summary, if we're balanced, we don't care if our larger bet-size will "likely result in a fold from our opponent" or if our opponent will be curious and look us up too much, either mistake will be costly and ultimately there's nothing he can do but try to respond GTO to minimize our value extracted from the situation.
Sorry! Too busy eating 6k calories a day and playing HSPLO to make good NLH theory videos anymore.. :( But the RIO pro line-up is becoming increasingly awesome so I would definitely recommend checking out videos from a lot of the other coaches.
Good point.. I think my line of thought at the time was that K-high was strong enough to check back because it could win at SD some significant % of the time and that we'd rather bluff worse hands that will never get to SD and win. The reason we bet the KQ/KJ hands is because they work nicely as robust hands that can work well betting over multiple streets as they (1) sometimes make the nuts, (2) sometime make an okay hand that likes to check-back and get to SD, and (3) sometimes will work out as a great bluff candidate. I think all of these things are debatable and its these subtleties for range construction that are important to be thinking about but it's difficult to come to concrete solutions. My NLH experience over the last few years is lacking so it's possible there's a better way to distribute these hands. But the key lesson to take away from this is that these little tweaks on hand choices for bluffs is not going to be as important in the grand scheme of things as your overall frequencies and ratios are. The goal is to be balanced with appropriate ranges to match our bet-sizes and fit the situation well, and from there we can debate which hands are going to be best chosen to fill-up our bucket of bluffing hands.
Thanks for reply boss. I do agree the process is what is most important and its important to not get bogged down in the details (which is essentially what I am doing but i cant help myself).
(Q,J,9): d!(A,2,T)
Assuming a 50% linear btn opening range.
1.) Board - Tc Ad 2d
1466190 trials (exhaustive)
<18%!6%> 81.1270%
<9d8y,9dJy,9dQy,9dKy> 18.8730% (12 combos)
2.) Board - Tc Ad 2d
1776060 trials (exhaustive)
<18%!6%> 75.9084%
<Kd5y-Kd9y> 24.0916% (15 combos)
So i think with Kd being able to turn nut diamonds and nut straight draws its probably a better candidate for cbetting it then some of these 9d hands. If SB's range is wider I can see more sd value and understand the reasoning behind checking better but not sure its necessary to substitute these out. But I always think in these examples its good to look at the bottom of our cbetting range (which in this example is 9d8y) and ask ourselves if there are better hands we can replace them with and keep tweaking it that way. Overall your point still stands that its hard to come to any concrete solutions and its much more important to just focus on the ratios. Somewhat interesting nonetheless.
This was first video I've seen from you (not sure why) but I am in process of going back and watching your other videos. You do a great job and I like that a lot of your videos are 30mins, keeps it short and fresh.
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Please consider returning at some point in the future if your schedule allows for it; your videos are fantastic!
I love strategy videos like this !! Thanks !
nice job!!
On the Tc Ad 2d 3c board you were talking about that over betting the turn here is a good strategy which I like as well, but I'm curious as to how we go about balancing this..I think over betting turn here is good because we apply max pressure on our opponents bluff catching range which will most likely result in a fold but why would we play our value hands this way if our opponent is folding a lot here? Would we just do it with our 45 off suit combos and not our 45s combos and sets? I'm just curious how we would go about balancing and not losing value on our big hands.
Hiya. I think you're combining a game theory concept with an exploitative strategy concept and that's creating some confusion.
If we're betting bigger, our opponent is supposed to fold more. Essentially, his minimum defense frequency (MDF, check out some of my first videos for a full explanation) is going to be lower as our bet-size increases. But that doesn't mean he should now fold out all his bluff-catchers like you seem to indicate. If he folds more than he should due to our larger bet-size, that's great.. our bluffs will profit a ton. Sure, our value hands no longer make as much money, but our bluffs make so much that our range in it's entirety still benefits more as a whole thanks to him over-folding.
If you want to start a mixed strategy of betting larger with bluffs (to get him to fold), and smaller with value (to get him to call), then you're applying an exploitative concept in hopes that your opponent doesn't realize what you're doing and you get to maximally exploit his mistakes. To be frank, this strategy tends not to do so well in mid+ stakes online anymore, so I would refrain from making it your default approach.
The reason betting bigger on the turn as a GTO strategy is likely better than betting smaller is because of the dynamics of the situation, given that we're quite polarized and playing against a very non-robust non-polarized range that models well as simple bluff-catchers. Thus, we take advantage by maximizing the amount of hands we can bluff with (with a larger bet-size) and subsequently, minimizing the amount of hands we have to give up with. In theory, he should call enough to make our bluffs indifferent and this strategy will maximize our value hands (because our bets were bigger and we will make more volume overall). However, in practice we'll often encounter players that will have trouble responding well to the strategy and will overfold or underfold, both resulting in us making even more money. In summary, if we're balanced, we don't care if our larger bet-size will "likely result in a fold from our opponent" or if our opponent will be curious and look us up too much, either mistake will be costly and ultimately there's nothing he can do but try to respond GTO to minimize our value extracted from the situation.
Listening to your podcast with Joey was a huge reason for me signing up for the elite subscription. Sad to see you leaving.
Sorry! Too busy eating 6k calories a day and playing HSPLO to make good NLH theory videos anymore.. :( But the RIO pro line-up is becoming increasingly awesome so I would definitely recommend checking out videos from a lot of the other coaches.
thanks for all the videos, you did an amazingly good job
very good video sean. in regards to flop cbetting range you wrote --
(Q,J,9): d!(A,2,T)
Why not Kd? Wouldn't (K,Q,J):d!(A,2,T) work better? Not trying to be a nit just curious.
Good point.. I think my line of thought at the time was that K-high was strong enough to check back because it could win at SD some significant % of the time and that we'd rather bluff worse hands that will never get to SD and win. The reason we bet the KQ/KJ hands is because they work nicely as robust hands that can work well betting over multiple streets as they (1) sometimes make the nuts, (2) sometime make an okay hand that likes to check-back and get to SD, and (3) sometimes will work out as a great bluff candidate. I think all of these things are debatable and its these subtleties for range construction that are important to be thinking about but it's difficult to come to concrete solutions. My NLH experience over the last few years is lacking so it's possible there's a better way to distribute these hands. But the key lesson to take away from this is that these little tweaks on hand choices for bluffs is not going to be as important in the grand scheme of things as your overall frequencies and ratios are. The goal is to be balanced with appropriate ranges to match our bet-sizes and fit the situation well, and from there we can debate which hands are going to be best chosen to fill-up our bucket of bluffing hands.
Thanks for reply boss. I do agree the process is what is most important and its important to not get bogged down in the details (which is essentially what I am doing but i cant help myself).
(Q,J,9): d!(A,2,T)
Assuming a 50% linear btn opening range.
1.) Board - Tc Ad 2d
1466190 trials (exhaustive)
<18%!6%> 81.1270%
<9d8y,9dJy,9dQy,9dKy> 18.8730% (12 combos)
2.) Board - Tc Ad 2d
1776060 trials (exhaustive)
<18%!6%> 75.9084%
<Kd5y-Kd9y> 24.0916% (15 combos)
So i think with Kd being able to turn nut diamonds and nut straight draws its probably a better candidate for cbetting it then some of these 9d hands. If SB's range is wider I can see more sd value and understand the reasoning behind checking better but not sure its necessary to substitute these out. But I always think in these examples its good to look at the bottom of our cbetting range (which in this example is 9d8y) and ask ourselves if there are better hands we can replace them with and keep tweaking it that way. Overall your point still stands that its hard to come to any concrete solutions and its much more important to just focus on the ratios. Somewhat interesting nonetheless.
This was first video I've seen from you (not sure why) but I am in process of going back and watching your other videos. You do a great job and I like that a lot of your videos are 30mins, keeps it short and fresh.
WAU, amazing video Sir, you are the sickest!!! what happened why is this your last series in RIO???? wau... please comeback man!!!
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