yeah i agree. seems like we can just use Ax as bluff catchers, and use our turned/rivered straights as value x raises. so if we don't bet this hand it is implying that our river betting range is 0% (which is clearly a mistake, given the fact we now have a stronger range than IP after his turn x back).

the IP player should be pot betting some of the weaker Ax at lower frequencies, so that he can have some river calls when he x back ott. also he has rivered a ton of Qx with hands such as KQ/QJ that bluffed otf and mixed bet/x back with ott. so if we have 5x, it seems like a clear river bluff (although this should mostly be folding on the flop, given IP's sizing and the fact we have so many Ax to defend with). so i would bluff with some of my Tx and then balance with our A3/A5/QT etc.

A3 seems a little thin to xr on the river, but i guess we only lose to KJ and AQ, both of which bet fairly often ott, especially AQ which could be close to pure turn bet. so it doesn't seem that crazy, but i think it will just be higher EV to bet, and will allow us to fold out some of IP's Qx when we have a hand such as Tx by the river.

Curious about this as well , there might be plenty of investments out there where you capture sub5% roi and you dont need such high deviations. But at the same time i think most of the guys playing there are not playing with their own money, probably a small group of very rich poker players that are capturing most of the ev staking the best players.

yeah i agree. i mean even if someone staked me in these i would never even bother playing them, doesn't really seem worth it given the extremely low edges and extremely high variance.

obviously i'm not complaining though, it's still sick to watch high stakes mtt's on here so i am grateful for that. just i was curious if anyone was making much money in these except form Linus haha

I think guys like Daniel and Sam Greenwood enjoy a comfortable edge and capture a good amount of EV in these tournaments

i think id take a deal like that..

said that, cashgame players like us need to put some serious serious work on shallow stacks, icm, fgs, bankroll managment, mtt theory to think we have decent roi in a field like that.

Most of the skills we have are worth very little in an mtt, equilibriums can be complete different due to so many variables, and the kind of spots that are worth a ton to adjust we dont have any idea..

ps. btw great video Daniel, you became my favourite rio coach lately

Juan Copani yeah agreed. but i think that cash game players have a pretty big edge post flop, especially on the latter streets as mtt players don't play turns/rivers too often given the shallow stacks and low spr's post flop, as well as a bunch of all in preflop jams.

however, i don't think mtt's/cash skills are that transferable unless you work on the other important aspects of each game type. for example, like you said, we probably make too many icm mistakes and don't have a very solid preflop game at shorter stacks. also x raising frequencies/combos vary drastically when 20bb deep compared to 100 bigs, so it's tough to know what hands you should be raising when you oscillate between the two formats.

conversely, many mtt players hardly ever play 100bb poker, and even if they do it will only be for a small fraction of the tournament when the value of winning chips is relatively low EV. Pads discussed this well in his podcast with Bencb, about how doubling your stack in the early stages isn't worth 2x your buyin, so its best to take a lower variance approach when the stacks are deep at the beginning of an mtt. and certain play styles work well in mtts (such as opening insanely wide and blindly cbetting on most boards) but if you take this approach over to cash you are probably now the fish at the table.

so i guess its not which player is better, cos they are both much better at their particular format overall. which is why i don't really bother playing higher than $530 buyins, just don't want to spend time i could be studying cash to study a game type that i do not intend on playing very often, and that has such insane variance. so props to high stakes mtt regs, cos i could never grind with that stress haha :P