Around the 30’ mark. In the “combination of two ideas” part of the video, you talked about looking for nodes in the tree where you can really put pressure on the opponents. For instance, you pointed out that after small bet IP and BB XR on 952, the BTN should 3b 10% and this is a tough node to find the right plays for a lot of opponents.
I’ve also heard this is a thing in chess - all things being equal make a move that makes the opponent squirm.
How do you “make spots”?
- what are you looking for when you review the solve? How do you find these spots?
- what are you looking for in your opponent? meaning, are these players you know pretty well who have leaks, people you’ve seen commit a big error at the table, or just a player who by tendency will make an unforced error there (unknown guy at a high roller, I guess)?
- is this a thing that you spend a lot of energy on refining, or is it something you’ve always been able to do?
I look at solver outputs, and when something that surprises me, I dig in deeper. I'll speculate whether I think my opponents are finding it. Sometimes I even will talk to friends about specific opponents “Do you think Galfond would ever go allin here”
It’s a cliche but the more your understand poker… the more comfortable you will be deviating.
This is definitely a much bigger thing is chess.. In chess you can really dictate the action. It would be like if you could decide you were going to have way more paired boards flops in a given day.
Great video Dan! I loved this style of video personally, and while not as detailed and defined as this "pecking order" was very much on my mind when on the bubble of the Wynn $10k late Day 2 with Artur Martirosian and Joao Simao at my table. I appreciated your explanation of how to approach these situations both from above and below.
You know...I can't help but notice that we're consistently competing for the 5th spot on the monthly leaderboards. To be fair here: You have tons of posts like this that receive multiple likes. Are one liners like this really worth all the points they give you each month? If someone sees this (like an admin) can they please at least just look at this? I feel it's unfair to other posters, as well. Not just me. And with BlankyLion - it's every month. Look at their posting history. TONS of pointless posts like this garnering points that eventually give them a free month of elite. Like, every month.
I didn't always rank 5th every month. And if all the comments I post were always like this it would be against terms, but it's kind of annoying that you snipe at only these comments while ignoring other detailed comments.
Do you want to make a community where you have to be wary of writing welcome to RIO comments? That's so ridiculous and breathtaking. So you want to say that every time everyone competing in the leaderboard should writes down super long or detailed comments, If not , they don't deserve a free elite course?
a. About betting at least 1/2 the pot on the river against a perceived stronger opponent at the table, did i understand that correctly? Was the advice not to make small river bets OOP?
b. When someone checks their hole cards on the river or turn when a flush comes in, what does that usually mean?
The advice was not to make small bets in position on the river. The key difference being that a small bet allows now your opponent the option to raise.
If you are OOP, your opponent has the option of putting money into the pot no matter what you do. So bc of this, on the River oop strategically gets small bets while IP rarely does.
I want to stress that this is a very easy fake tell. But id say a total novice who checks his cards who’s not trying to trick you is confirming whether or not one of his cards is of the suit on the board. The cliche is it’s easy to remember if you have eight nine of spades. But if you have a pair of jacks preflop, it’s more likely to forget if you have the Jack of diamonds or Jack of hearts. Or you have AT offsuit, one diamond one spade, you might forget which card is the diamond and which is the spade. Plenty of serious players check their cards multiple times per hard to mitigate this. If you're mindful I don't think this is necessary fwiw
But it’s all a piece of a puzzle. Imagine your tight inexperienced opponent faces a big bet on the flush card. He visibly reacts, says “oh geez” and double checks his cards. He takes a sip of his beer. And then dramatically raises.
I like the concept of the pecking order and try to apply this in the games I play - playing more defensively against stronger players and trying more exploits against weaker players. How would you apply this concept in a multiway pot, for example you are in a 3-way pot against one player who you consider stronger than you and one player who you consider weaker than you?
Hi mat. Good question! in fact… such a good question, I don’t know if I can give you a proper answer other than the dreaded “it depends!” But I’ll try.
Generally in these spots just try to be aware of why the solver tries to implement a certain strategy.
So for example... 3 way pot HJ raise button call we call BB.
Flop we check, opener checks button bets. There are spots where the solver as BB will want to flatcall every hand hand it continues. And generally this is because the opener is suppose to checkraise a very high percent. But if HJ isn’t going to raise very often , BB’s strat will change accordingly.
Now another example , imagine we’re in a 3 way srp flop , HJ vs sb VS BB aq4 rainbow. Weak player in the big blind. Let’s say BB’s leak is just putting too much money in with any piece across all streets It's still important that we aren’t tipping our hand too early.
Imagine if SB can sniff out our “weaker “ sizes and pounce by running elaborate bluffs. Or similarly, if SB can deduce “would Dan really bluff this size into so and so's big blind ” and hero folds AT to my sized up continuation bet , that is costly.
I guess generally we are measuring whether the deception we’re giving off to the good player is made up by the third player . Every situation is different. It’s really hard, especially multi-way. It’s a cliche but good fundamentals are always a great place to start.
Hey Dan big fan! great video, im new to run it once myself as well!
mainly a cash player but ive played and studied some mtt play as well.
what would your advice be for somebody going from online cash 6 max player to live cash - 1/3, 2/5 realm?
trying to grow my bank roll as fast as possible while still learning the nuances of live cash
for example, theres a bunch of straddling going on, limping calling, lots of multi ways pots. things im not really adjusted to playing when i play online.
say im playing 1/3 and i open utg to 15, get 7 callers lol, like whats the best way to navigate and adjust to this live play.
should we be calling less 3 betting more? tighten up our rfi ranges? try to identify the weaker players and punish the limpers?
So I'm not really experienced in this arena, having never really played these games.
1) don't sleep on the added tightness of that adding players 7-9
2) open limping early position could work well, largely around hands that play well mutliway, mix in some LRRs with good hands and bluffs. Maybe even some limp jams if it it goes like (limp 3, r to 15 , c, c,c... thats a lot of money in thee with only 300 in your stack )
And I'd try to be aware of separating the guys playing a little loose vs the guys playing every hand
Hey Dan,
I'm a big fan of you and welcome to RIO. It's the 2nd time I watch this video throughly and really love it. When you said that "when to play theoretically and when not" is the biggest challenge in poker at the beginning or the video, I laughed out and relieved to know even the best players in this world also find it hard.
I played live MTTs mainly in Asia area and most of the fields are soft. So in general I put exploititve play before theoretical play in game. Now I understand that it could be I mainly played down the pecking order and there are another side of the coin. It's a very good reminder when I'm preparing my first ever Triton game in March.
A little suggestion from my view would be put more of your implied thoughts on the slides. For example in the 2 hands examples in the "combination" chapter, you suggested 2 types of players. It'll be much easier for viewers to understand if you can put your strategies against each type on the slides to compare them.
But again it's a very good video and I'm grateful that one of the best players in the world can share his thinking process with us. Really appreciated and looking forward to playing with you on the table one day. Thanks and good luck on the table.
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What an addition! Welcome to RIO Dan!
Welcome aboard Dan! Really enjoyed the concepts you introduced in this vid!
Great first video Dan.
Around the 30’ mark. In the “combination of two ideas” part of the video, you talked about looking for nodes in the tree where you can really put pressure on the opponents. For instance, you pointed out that after small bet IP and BB XR on 952, the BTN should 3b 10% and this is a tough node to find the right plays for a lot of opponents.
I’ve also heard this is a thing in chess - all things being equal make a move that makes the opponent squirm.
How do you “make spots”?
- what are you looking for when you review the solve? How do you find these spots?
- what are you looking for in your opponent? meaning, are these players you know pretty well who have leaks, people you’ve seen commit a big error at the table, or just a player who by tendency will make an unforced error there (unknown guy at a high roller, I guess)?
- is this a thing that you spend a lot of energy on refining, or is it something you’ve always been able to do?
Hi, thanks!
I look at solver outputs, and when something that surprises me, I dig in deeper. I'll speculate whether I think my opponents are finding it. Sometimes I even will talk to friends about specific opponents “Do you think Galfond would ever go allin here”
It’s a cliche but the more your understand poker… the more comfortable you will be deviating.
This is definitely a much bigger thing is chess.. In chess you can really dictate the action. It would be like if you could decide you were going to have way more paired boards flops in a given day.
Great video Dan! I loved this style of video personally, and while not as detailed and defined as this "pecking order" was very much on my mind when on the bubble of the Wynn $10k late Day 2 with Artur Martirosian and Joao Simao at my table. I appreciated your explanation of how to approach these situations both from above and below.
Welcome to the team Dan!
What a move!! welcome to RIO <3
You know...I can't help but notice that we're consistently competing for the 5th spot on the monthly leaderboards. To be fair here: You have tons of posts like this that receive multiple likes. Are one liners like this really worth all the points they give you each month? If someone sees this (like an admin) can they please at least just look at this? I feel it's unfair to other posters, as well. Not just me. And with BlankyLion - it's every month. Look at their posting history. TONS of pointless posts like this garnering points that eventually give them a free month of elite. Like, every month.
I didn't always rank 5th every month. And if all the comments I post were always like this it would be against terms, but it's kind of annoying that you snipe at only these comments while ignoring other detailed comments.
Do you want to make a community where you have to be wary of writing welcome to RIO comments? That's so ridiculous and breathtaking. So you want to say that every time everyone competing in the leaderboard should writes down super long or detailed comments, If not , they don't deserve a free elite course?
The legend giving away some of his moves
Excellent video! Would love to see/hear more about your process, study/prep/game-planning and adjusting/spot breakdowns etc.
Awesome. Welcome to RIO, Dan!
Nice work!
I had a couple of questions:
a. About betting at least 1/2 the pot on the river against a perceived stronger opponent at the table, did i understand that correctly? Was the advice not to make small river bets OOP?
b. When someone checks their hole cards on the river or turn when a flush comes in, what does that usually mean?
Thanks,
Hi Brian. Thanks!
If you are OOP, your opponent has the option of putting money into the pot no matter what you do. So bc of this, on the River oop strategically gets small bets while IP rarely does.
But it’s all a piece of a puzzle. Imagine your tight inexperienced opponent faces a big bet on the flush card. He visibly reacts, says “oh geez” and double checks his cards. He takes a sip of his beer. And then dramatically raises.
This fella probably has the goods.
Great video Dan - the way that you simplified and communicated your messaging was great, as were the visuals and overall presentation format.
Hello Dan, welcome to RIO!
I like the concept of the pecking order and try to apply this in the games I play - playing more defensively against stronger players and trying more exploits against weaker players. How would you apply this concept in a multiway pot, for example you are in a 3-way pot against one player who you consider stronger than you and one player who you consider weaker than you?
Hi mat. Good question! in fact… such a good question, I don’t know if I can give you a proper answer other than the dreaded “it depends!” But I’ll try.
Generally in these spots just try to be aware of why the solver tries to implement a certain strategy.
So for example... 3 way pot HJ raise button call we call BB.
Flop we check, opener checks button bets. There are spots where the solver as BB will want to flatcall every hand hand it continues. And generally this is because the opener is suppose to checkraise a very high percent. But if HJ isn’t going to raise very often , BB’s strat will change accordingly.
Now another example , imagine we’re in a 3 way srp flop , HJ vs sb VS BB aq4 rainbow. Weak player in the big blind. Let’s say BB’s leak is just putting too much money in with any piece across all streets It's still important that we aren’t tipping our hand too early.
Imagine if SB can sniff out our “weaker “ sizes and pounce by running elaborate bluffs. Or similarly, if SB can deduce “would Dan really bluff this size into so and so's big blind ” and hero folds AT to my sized up continuation bet , that is costly.
I guess generally we are measuring whether the deception we’re giving off to the good player is made up by the third player . Every situation is different. It’s really hard, especially multi-way. It’s a cliche but good fundamentals are always a great place to start.
Hey Dan big fan! great video, im new to run it once myself as well!
mainly a cash player but ive played and studied some mtt play as well.
what would your advice be for somebody going from online cash 6 max player to live cash - 1/3, 2/5 realm?
trying to grow my bank roll as fast as possible while still learning the nuances of live cash
for example, theres a bunch of straddling going on, limping calling, lots of multi ways pots. things im not really adjusted to playing when i play online.
say im playing 1/3 and i open utg to 15, get 7 callers lol, like whats the best way to navigate and adjust to this live play.
should we be calling less 3 betting more? tighten up our rfi ranges? try to identify the weaker players and punish the limpers?
any input would be great!
Thanks!
So I'm not really experienced in this arena, having never really played these games.
1) don't sleep on the added tightness of that adding players 7-9
2) open limping early position could work well, largely around hands that play well mutliway, mix in some LRRs with good hands and bluffs. Maybe even some limp jams if it it goes like (limp 3, r to 15 , c, c,c... thats a lot of money in thee with only 300 in your stack )
And I'd try to be aware of separating the guys playing a little loose vs the guys playing every hand
GL and welcome to RIO :)
Thanks for the input! Appreciate it!
Limping truly is pimping, haha
My only worry from limping strong from early is if it just call calls all the way through! Hoping somebody late raises tries to squeeze
What an addition to the roster! Loved the video!
Hi Dan,
I missed your video when it came out awesome to have you here! I love these types of videos covering more abstract concepts, thank you
Hey Dan,
I'm a big fan of you and welcome to RIO. It's the 2nd time I watch this video throughly and really love it. When you said that "when to play theoretically and when not" is the biggest challenge in poker at the beginning or the video, I laughed out and relieved to know even the best players in this world also find it hard.
I played live MTTs mainly in Asia area and most of the fields are soft. So in general I put exploititve play before theoretical play in game. Now I understand that it could be I mainly played down the pecking order and there are another side of the coin. It's a very good reminder when I'm preparing my first ever Triton game in March.
A little suggestion from my view would be put more of your implied thoughts on the slides. For example in the 2 hands examples in the "combination" chapter, you suggested 2 types of players. It'll be much easier for viewers to understand if you can put your strategies against each type on the slides to compare them.
But again it's a very good video and I'm grateful that one of the best players in the world can share his thinking process with us. Really appreciated and looking forward to playing with you on the table one day. Thanks and good luck on the table.
Great video Dan!
Love this concepts that you talked about
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