General takeaway was great but I am a little confused on the frequency chart here on this 863r flop
When i look at the 3 way frequency graph, i don't see a range at all for CO on 88+ SD and 33 + SD. Admittedly those are fairly rare combos but def in the CO range (T988, 9887, 3345ds etc). Does this mean they are pure checks?
Also I also dont see bare two pair combos on the frequency chart at all. The explanation on when to lead from BB makes sense, but would love to see CO and BTN frequency also
lastly when you are comparing vision to the 863 results you mention hands like bare sets rarely donk from bb (on 862r via vision ) and when you get a gutter you bet a lot more. But we saw the opposite from the frequency chart
Yeah the reason those hands weren't included is because they occur so rarely (they'd so up as 0.0% on a chart). You need 4 cards to make these hands and those sets are already rare for CO and BTN.
Good catch with the last point. I think I overapplied a concept I studied deeply in HU short stack. In a HU pot say at 40-50bb, We'll build our range as I described. The objective in those spots is to build polarity from symmetrical ranges and we do this by leading really strong multi component hands. In 3 way pots, we're seeing the opposite. My guess as to why that is happening is a combination of a few factors:
We may be generating too much fold equity when we hold so many components in one hand and then bet into two players (shrinking each individual player's MDF)
We may actually want villain to have hands with SDs. Since villain's are defending tighter than in a HU pot, the GII ranges are much tighter. In a HU pot, we'd hope to dominate their two pair hands, but now they won't stack off bare two pair often so we need to allow them to have two pair+SD in order to be able to stack them.
Some of these things are hard to prove and break apart in the solver, but these are just my thoughts off the cuff.
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I really enjoy these videos! Keep 'em coming!
General takeaway was great but I am a little confused on the frequency chart here on this 863r flop
When i look at the 3 way frequency graph, i don't see a range at all for CO on 88+ SD and 33 + SD. Admittedly those are fairly rare combos but def in the CO range (T988, 9887, 3345ds etc). Does this mean they are pure checks?
Also I also dont see bare two pair combos on the frequency chart at all. The explanation on when to lead from BB makes sense, but would love to see CO and BTN frequency also
lastly when you are comparing vision to the 863 results you mention hands like bare sets rarely donk from bb (on 862r via vision ) and when you get a gutter you bet a lot more. But we saw the opposite from the frequency chart
What do you think is causing this difference?
Thanks for the questions:
Yeah the reason those hands weren't included is because they occur so rarely (they'd so up as 0.0% on a chart). You need 4 cards to make these hands and those sets are already rare for CO and BTN.
Good catch with the last point. I think I overapplied a concept I studied deeply in HU short stack. In a HU pot say at 40-50bb, We'll build our range as I described. The objective in those spots is to build polarity from symmetrical ranges and we do this by leading really strong multi component hands. In 3 way pots, we're seeing the opposite. My guess as to why that is happening is a combination of a few factors:
We may be generating too much fold equity when we hold so many components in one hand and then bet into two players (shrinking each individual player's MDF)
We may actually want villain to have hands with SDs. Since villain's are defending tighter than in a HU pot, the GII ranges are much tighter. In a HU pot, we'd hope to dominate their two pair hands, but now they won't stack off bare two pair often so we need to allow them to have two pair+SD in order to be able to stack them.
Some of these things are hard to prove and break apart in the solver, but these are just my thoughts off the cuff.
yea that makes sense to me. Hands that block calling ranges but are trying to find ways to get money in make sense to check
Great series, ive been going through it all
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