Building Realistic Strategies For Strong Ranges On Poor Flops
Posted by Zachary Freeman
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Outstanding video, very well done really. Haven't watched your last no limit video yet but if people didn't like it this one definitely makes up for it.
Excellent video Zach!
Thanks Ben! That means a lot.
Good video.
Quick note, the reason your number came to 4-5% and the programs number came to ~10% is that you calculated % total pot and it calculated % your share of pot
Cool. Good to know.
By way of general feedback, I have a very difficult time watching your videos due to the length of your very frequent digressions. I end up dealing with it for about five minutes, then trying to skip ahead a few times, then getting very frustrated and just doing something else. For example, I made it to about minute eleven on this one and had basically no idea what your thesis is re: the intersection of gto+practical play, and I gave up.
Its unfortunate that you dislike the digressions. I did refamiliarize myself with the video and I think I was pretty clear in describing the focus and sub-topics of the video. Regarding digressions, unless I get a majority population responding with dislike of them I will continue to include them. When I watch videos I find digressions often are the most interesting and valuable sections. Phil constantly has digressions and for years I have enjoyed listening to them.
The positive thing is that it's completely fine if you have a difficult time watching my videos. Fortunately there are many talented video makers on the site and others may fit your preferences better.
Yeah, do whatever works for you/the site/etc; I don't and didn't mean to say "zomg zach freeman is lolterrible and/or has awful ideas," it's just feedback, and I do rarely have trouble finding content that's presented in a more agreeable way.
But it seems you've missed my point: digressions in general are fine (arguably even necessary), but it's the length of yours that drives me up a wall. Without re-watching, it seemed to me yesterday that over 90% of what I watched was parenthetical to the point you were trying to make.
Again, just feedback, trying to help.
I'm not zach so he can feel free to chime in but the thesis of this video can be easily summarized as follows:
GTO strategies by definition guarantee that we're unexploitable. That said, they often require the use of many mixed strategies at extremely low frequencies that are difficult to approximate as a human. (It's one thing to know that we have to check raise Aks 3.7% of the time it's another thing altogether to actually do it. Most people will end up at ~0 or at >10% for example). What we're looking at is whether we can simplify the GTO strategy into an exploitable quasi-GTO strategy that is slightly exploitable but a good enough approximation to the GTO strategy that worst case scenario (if villain somehow successfully picks max exploit) we're still not doing THAT badly. Furthermore, we can chose the direction from GTO that we deviate (more or less aggressive with each combo) so that our quasi-GTO strategy is fairly likely to perform better vs most players in the field.
So in this video:
1)We look for the GTO strat (involves calling some hand at weird frequencies like 3.2% or 9.7%).
2)We look for villains GTO strat (same thing as above)
3)We look at how we think villains are likely to deviate from said strat. We note that they will be much tighter than is GTO correct.
4) We decide our actual quasi-GTO strat is not going to contain any weird frequencies so we roughly assume we can play either pure call/pure fold/pure raise or a simple fraction of any 2 (0.33/0.67, 0.5/0.5). We chose to deviate from GTO in a way that exploits villain's tendencies.
(So, in the GTO strat KTs is a small fraction x/c but we decide to play pure fold because villains flop stab range is too strong.)
Hopefully that helps
Could not have said it better.
That does seem like a good summary. A thesis is simply a statement of the problem you're trying to solve, so this is still way too much detail. Something along the lines of:
"Mixed strategies are difficult to execute, particularly those involving small or incomprehensible fractions, so it's worthwhile to create exploitable strategies based on pure or near pure actions that don't require us to spend energy attempting to achieve actual precision. Of course, since we deviate from a precise strategy, we should do so in a way that's designed to exploit our opponents' own deviations."
is really all it takes to convince readers that you're not wasting their time leading them on a wandering path through a forest of incoherent gobbledegook. Of course, if this is what the video is about, then it has nothing to do with range strength on particular flops, stack depth, etc.
Great Video, my favorite one of yours
Great job, clear explanation, liked it a lot.
Would like to see something like this with a PLO hand. Ofc there are no GTO solvers but at least teaching how to tackle them with PokerJuice.
Do you mean bad flops for strong ranges in PLO? If so I can try to make that happen.
One of the better Piosolver videos I've seen. I like the way you node locked villain's passive strategy as that situation comes up a lot too. There are a lot of spots in no limit like this where we can just check our entire range or bet our entire range rather than trying to implement a strategy that only a computer can remember. Thanks!
Great video, would like to see more along the same lines. I feel like I've been giving away a ton of money calling hands vs people who are just never bluffing enough!
BEASTTTT!!!!! thanks for this video and please keep the coming !!!!
Good use of PIo solver. Great vid.
How drastic would strategies change at 100bbs?
At 100bbs you start mixing in some c/r with overpairs iirc and at less than 100bbs that happens quite a lot.
great video zach! First fo yours I've seen and I'm sure it won't be the last! Really enjoyed watching you work through this problem in the solver and adjusting ranges based on opponents different frequencies, would love to see more solver work in the future
thanks for the video, all these snowie and pio, they just make it unrealistic with those 14.57623% frequencies , u made it realistic!
no clue about this program, but the program (or at least what you showed of it when it you had it compute your strategy for the turn given your inputted flop actions)- still had in hands you were going to fold. so that messes with your frequencies
or it could be reverting to hands from its strategy, but it also had hands it would fold (tho a much more mixed %) in the turn range. can you clarify whats going on? ~34min?
Can you clarify what you are asking? I don't understand what you are asking.
At minute 34 I am looking at OOP strategy for two different turns (Q, and board pair).
zach-
It seemed to me, when you asked it to look at different strategies on different turn cards you wanted it to solve for how your strategy should play on turns I . It still has A9s-AJs, A2-A5s, AJo-AKo, KT-KQs, QT-QJs, J9-JTs,T9s, 86s, 75s in your turn range, all of which your strategy wanted to fold out on the flop. So if you wanted to solve for how your strategy were to continue on these turns, the percentages of betting/checking are now not true (along with possibly the true strategy being skewed?!)
Do you having it solve for your strat or its own (previous) flop strat? it seems the latter while flow suggested the former.
Yes. I see what you are asking. It may have to do with the error message at 34:20. It looks like it was showing the turn strategy for the GTO solution.
Strategies for hands no longer in the range are shown, but you can see the weight (probability) of the hand's being in the range by checking "Square size proportional to weight" and/or by clicking the button for the player of interest under "Range:".
Really great video. Very applicable for us live players :)
Really a great video Zach, one of the best I've seen...I like the use of node locking and how you think their strategy might look and how folding certain hands exploits it and actually putting a number on how much calling with AKs loses against their perceived strategy... I'm not sure I agree that people play passively when checked to in that situation, maybe at higher levels of the game it changes, but I see a lot of people auto bet when you check to them on that flop, figuring that you will give up to them a lot there or that at least you won't be able to call 1-A...also not sure how often people call with 87o pre-flop there... but I heartily applaud your methodology and analysis...
Fantastic video, thanks Zach!
Yo Zach, love the video. Had a quick question on node locking since you said you did the process prior to the video.
When I want to node lock certain combinations, say A7dd for always raising the flop and not raising the other 3 A7s combos, how can I manually select just that A5 diamond suit instead of moving the bar to an overall % of A7s combos? Not referring to the flop in the video with this a7s, just a random example when building villains flop raising range since there are a lot of spots that people raise a nut flush draw always and never raise the other a7s hands. Thanks for the help buddy.
I've watched many piosolver videos, and this is one of the best I've seen out there. It was much easier to follow Zach's use of piosolver with these ranges assigned as examples. Most of the piosolver videos currently out generally uses hand histories from online play which are hands played by two very good players. So it's solving for really wide optimal ranges preflop and that sometimes make piosolver a little more difficult to follow.
I've never played around with PioSolver, but I was also quite surprised that PioSolver checked back a majority of AA/KK combos in response to your simplified strat. Is this because the IP player already has so few combos of AA/KK in his range, as he is 3b most of them? Is it a generally correct to continue to "slowplay" AA/KK as the IP player just to stay consistent with the rest of his range?
Over 5 years old and this is still an excellent introduction to how different strategies function in practice compared to GTO. Really glad I watched this one despite it's age
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