Just incase you don't know since it was not used in this video, You can use the runouts ev comparison ( hotness ) function in PIO so see a quick view of strategy on all turns. Might be useful for future videos.
yes but the problem is that when you give multiple bet sizing options then it can be difficult to differentiate between the bet sizing options as all of the shades are fairly similar. it's much clearer when you only give two bet sizing options, for example, then you can quickly glance across the different turn/river cards and see clearly which turn/rivers prefer which sizing. with 3+ it becomes pretty unclear imo.
great video, yeah 873fd buvsbb only uses the min bet at decent freq on pairing turns and Ax turns, also have you messed around much with turn probing for like the 300% size i saw a lot of big turn probe in the sims in this video and it reminded i need to look into that.
welcome back Ben! i was worried that you had left RIO as a coach after going without a video for a couple months, but fortunately that wasn't the case.
cool video, and definitely something i will add in to my study in the coming weeks. one thing to note though- the sim outputs could be affected by the fact you only gave one xr sizing for OOP. if you don't give them multiple xr sizing's then PIO will kind of 'cheat' and use small sizings as IP in order to avoid putting in more money vs a raise. tbh i still think that you will see a similar strategy for IP even with multiple xr sizings for OOP, but it could have an impact on the strategies of both players.
it can also impact the betting range for OOP, as if they can't get in enough money with a xr, they will start to front load more value combos instead (if you gave them the option of an over bet probe sizing).
Hello Ben, I am also glad to see you back with a video and especially with a theory based video. These are my favourite types of videos - less obvious concepts that I would never have thought of myself that can add EV to your strategy both in optimal play and by forcing your opponent into a part of the game tree they don't know about and inducing poor responses.
I had the exact same thoughts as Demondoink when watching this video about the lack of a large turn check raise size for OOP and ran a few sims with various turn check-raising sizes for OOP on the turn vs the delayed cbet before I even read Demondoink's comment. My thinking was that for OOP to be indifferent between probe overbetting and check-raising a premium hand they should be able to get the same amount of money in the pot on average with either line. Given that OOP can force 6BB into the pot by probing and only has a 50-60% chance of raising to 7BB by checking it seemed to me that they would opt for the overbet with all nutted hands. The ability to min bet certain turns when checked to, particularly those that appeared good for OOP's range in general seemed to me to be the response to facing the remnants of a range that probe bet polar and was now devoid of strong hands and was now mainly check folding even to a small bet - as we see in other spots such as someone taking a polar line on an earlier street and then checking the turn or river.
I ran 2 sims on 765ss for BTN vs BB - firstly with the same 7x turn raise size for OOP, and secondly with multiple turn raise sizings for OOP to pick from - 3.5x, 5x, 8x, 12x, 'e'. To my surprise the betting frequency is only decreased by around 1% on average by adding the extra raise sizes. I did however find that when including 32% and 50% turn bet sizing for the IP delayed cbet that the min bet is rarely used on this board and found the same on the other boards I tried and struggled to find one where min bet is used. It's worth noting also that my sims have a much different BB flatting range to yours - much tighter calling but much wider 3betting range removed. To me the preflop ranges you used seem to be quite different to what I am used to seeing, particularly the BB vs UTG range with hands like QQ and 54o in the flatting range at 100%.
What do you think of having a small % (5-8 percent) big bet lead from OOP on the T97 flop built around 8x hands leveraging nut advantage on this board? Pio says it's a thing apparently but would it be too hard to implement in practice/would avg regs play terribly enough against it to make it viable?
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LFG!!
Just incase you don't know since it was not used in this video, You can use the runouts ev comparison ( hotness ) function in PIO so see a quick view of strategy on all turns. Might be useful for future videos.
yes but the problem is that when you give multiple bet sizing options then it can be difficult to differentiate between the bet sizing options as all of the shades are fairly similar. it's much clearer when you only give two bet sizing options, for example, then you can quickly glance across the different turn/river cards and see clearly which turn/rivers prefer which sizing. with 3+ it becomes pretty unclear imo.
great video, yeah 873fd buvsbb only uses the min bet at decent freq on pairing turns and Ax turns, also have you messed around much with turn probing for like the 300% size i saw a lot of big turn probe in the sims in this video and it reminded i need to look into that.
When I've looked at this I've noticed it's typically more like 150-200% pot but yea
welcome back Ben! i was worried that you had left RIO as a coach after going without a video for a couple months, but fortunately that wasn't the case.
cool video, and definitely something i will add in to my study in the coming weeks. one thing to note though- the sim outputs could be affected by the fact you only gave one xr sizing for OOP. if you don't give them multiple xr sizing's then PIO will kind of 'cheat' and use small sizings as IP in order to avoid putting in more money vs a raise. tbh i still think that you will see a similar strategy for IP even with multiple xr sizings for OOP, but it could have an impact on the strategies of both players.
it can also impact the betting range for OOP, as if they can't get in enough money with a xr, they will start to front load more value combos instead (if you gave them the option of an over bet probe sizing).
This is true but I think small effect
Hello Ben, I am also glad to see you back with a video and especially with a theory based video. These are my favourite types of videos - less obvious concepts that I would never have thought of myself that can add EV to your strategy both in optimal play and by forcing your opponent into a part of the game tree they don't know about and inducing poor responses.
I had the exact same thoughts as Demondoink when watching this video about the lack of a large turn check raise size for OOP and ran a few sims with various turn check-raising sizes for OOP on the turn vs the delayed cbet before I even read Demondoink's comment. My thinking was that for OOP to be indifferent between probe overbetting and check-raising a premium hand they should be able to get the same amount of money in the pot on average with either line. Given that OOP can force 6BB into the pot by probing and only has a 50-60% chance of raising to 7BB by checking it seemed to me that they would opt for the overbet with all nutted hands. The ability to min bet certain turns when checked to, particularly those that appeared good for OOP's range in general seemed to me to be the response to facing the remnants of a range that probe bet polar and was now devoid of strong hands and was now mainly check folding even to a small bet - as we see in other spots such as someone taking a polar line on an earlier street and then checking the turn or river.
I ran 2 sims on 765ss for BTN vs BB - firstly with the same 7x turn raise size for OOP, and secondly with multiple turn raise sizings for OOP to pick from - 3.5x, 5x, 8x, 12x, 'e'. To my surprise the betting frequency is only decreased by around 1% on average by adding the extra raise sizes. I did however find that when including 32% and 50% turn bet sizing for the IP delayed cbet that the min bet is rarely used on this board and found the same on the other boards I tried and struggled to find one where min bet is used. It's worth noting also that my sims have a much different BB flatting range to yours - much tighter calling but much wider 3betting range removed. To me the preflop ranges you used seem to be quite different to what I am used to seeing, particularly the BB vs UTG range with hands like QQ and 54o in the flatting range at 100%.
Any tips on how to upload a higher quality image appreciated :D
What do you think of having a small % (5-8 percent) big bet lead from OOP on the T97 flop built around 8x hands leveraging nut advantage on this board? Pio says it's a thing apparently but would it be too hard to implement in practice/would avg regs play terribly enough against it to make it viable?
Pot is say 5bb on flop, so min bet is 20% pot in this spot
Ben Sulsky Great to hear you back doing videos again!!!
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