BB Against Button Raise HH Review
Posted by Tyler Forrester
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Cool video, thank you!
How would you change your defending strategy on the big blind if you were playing smaller stakes where the rake is higher but the players are worse? Would you defend more or less than you do at mid stakes? I'm paying around 7bb/100 rake on average so I was just wondering if my defending frequencies should be lower because of this, higher because of worse players or pretty much the same assuming that the high rake and bad players are kind of ruling each other out?
It's awesome you liked the video!
Obviously, the answer is tighter, but how much tighter depends on too many factors to give a definitive answer. You can use your database to infer some things given a large enough sample size. You can also try to think about how much your opponent mistakes make.
For example: Say against a complete fish, we'll flop two pair or better 3% of the time. If we thought we'd win a stack 100% of the time (and get sucked out on 10% of the time) . We'll win 4/5 (2 * .9 - 1 = .8) of his stack 3% of the time. So we call any time his raise size is.024 or less of his stack (4/5 * .03 = Raise Size = .024 )
I hope it helps.
Gotta love the way you explain yourself. Thanks for sharing!
great stuff! thanks for this
At 7:20 you say you decided to check raise the turn smaller instead of check raising all in because you don't have many combinations of KT / T8. Do you think that might make a check raise all in a better play than a smaller check raise, because you'll be taking a polarized line in spot where it's really hard for you to actually have a nut combo?
No, because I'll be over valuing my two pair combos. He has possibly every combo of T8 and KT, so I don't want to tighten his range so that he only calls with hands better than mine. If you are still curious, check out my last video.
Hi Tyler,
Great video!
What are your thoughts on never x/r anything worse than 86 here? Given he has almost all 32 combos of T8 and KT I think it would be very hard to get called by worse more than half the time if you x/r the river with worse than 86, especially since the value hands you'd be doing it with have blocker effects that are bad for you.
Hi Daniel,
I was actually thinking along the same lines, but it feels weird to rep two combos here. I'm going to put into piosolver and see what it says.
Great video!
In the video you talked about of the importance of blockers when bluff-catching against polarized ranges when playing strong regs. How do you go about bluff-catching against weak regs or recreational players who often do weird things?
Even better, blockers will be positive and normal hands will be breakeven. Bad bluffing ranges make always call strategies more lucrative.
Awesome video Tyler! I really enjoy how clearly you explain your thought process. The level of thought and precision that your hands are played at are insane to me. It gives me an insight into how players of your caliber approach the game and provides me a benchmark to at least try and attain. Anyways just wanted to say please continue to make videos like this as they are gold :-)
Thanks Cantona, I appreciate the compliments!
Nice vid
At 25:00
is there no 66,55 in your x/r range?
Because if I c/r all my nut hands on the flop, there will be turns where my range is capped very low. This is disastrous against exploitative opposition. Realistically my range includes some 66 and 55 and I slowplay some A6 and A5, but this overcomplicates my sim and doesn't effect my bluffing frequencies.
20:12 KJo on J74rc, Tu Kc.
What made you choose such a large x/r sizing (48-240) in this spot. I've noticed a lot of good regs making this really large raises on more dynamic board textures rather than aiming to do more linear raise sizing. Is this just because the board is still quite dynamic and range equities aren't as static as they would be on more locked down boards?
I think Tyler pretty much gave an answer to your question in video: Hero has a lot of draws that he don't really want to call with but really doesn't want to fold either, so there are a lot of possible bluffing combinations. In order to have many bluffs in his range, hero should be using a large raise sizing so that he can include more bluffs in his range. Smaller raise sizing makes more sense in a spot where there aren't as many good bluffraise combinations.
Too add to Samu's comment, the second part of this idea is that my value range is very strong in comparison to opponent range. This gives me the flexibility to increase my sizings to include more bluffs.
Very solid, as per usual. Just joined Elite a few weeks ago and binging your videos has been amazing. Thx for the well thought out and articulated material Tyler!!!
Thank you Jean-Serge! I appreciate your viewership.
great vid as always.
at 17min, about the 66 hand, how do you know he want you to be indifferent to calling q7? why is that the cutoff? and why do you think he prefers following thru with missed flush draws? wouldnt he prefer to bluff j9 with no diamonds since having a diamond cud block ur folding range?
or do you assume that since he overbet turn that he must have combo draws that all have flush draws?... i hear ppl say that but why do overbets need to have nutted hands and hands with a ton of equity? doesnt this just make our range so so strong and gives our opponent worse pot odds such that he shud just fold a lot? dont we gain more by overbetting meduim strength draws that gain more from folds? (i think intuitively we bet bigger with strong semi bluffs and nut hands, but curious why that works best in theory)
on a related note, does the fact that u can have 86o and 63s cause him to be able to bluff less since ur whole range isnt bluffcatchers?
Bigger bets = smaller calling ranges. Smaller calling ranges = more of calling range is nut hands. Or Big Value bets need to be very strong! Hence my indifference thresholds will be very high and blockers will become more important.
As to the composition of his bluffing range, I assume overbets semibluffs generally have more equity because it makes the bet size less revelant. Is this always true? No. I'll review this at the start of my next video with piosolver. This requires more words than I can give it in a comment.
Nice vid.
Just a sidenote: You know that the HM replayer can calculate the Pot Odds for you? I'm just asking because you calculated the Pot Odds in the Q7o hand yourself with the HM replayer running in the background. You were actually just one mouseclick away to know the BE Callequity for Q7o.
Thanks for the headsup! I'm so used to doing it by hand, I didn't even look.
Great video, I really enjoyed it!
About 66 hand. I noticed something very curious while I looked in kind of similar river spot with pio solver. It is possible for IP to choose to shove with hand like 78 sometimes, but only if checking and shoving have equal ev. It is work both ways, punish you for calling with 66, 67, 56, type hands and make you fold some better hands, like QJcc or A7dd. Ofc OOP is still right to call down with this type of bluff catchers but has lower expectation.
Ofc I doubt that the solver will ever choose to over bet the turn with 78 in this particular hand, but still find it interesting enough to mention.
Thanks for the feedback I'm going to cover this more indepthly at the start of my next video. I think this spot is super interesting as well :).
In 66 hand what do you Think abaut villain shoving hands like T6cc or T8dd otr?
It should be negative ev, because he'll block more parts of my river folding range, (things like 78, 76, 65).
Hi Tyler, thank you for the video! Enjoyed it
37:00 You mentioned that it is a mistake for you to check K2o here on the river. In the current games I am playing, players often overcall on this particular river because every conceivable draw missed. And I wouldn't be check raising just bare Kx. Thus like you said I underbluff here a lot. So given we block Kx and 22 I love the check. I find myself never bluffing river here due to population tendency. Do you think this could potentially be a problem or is it a good deviate?
Last hand 85cc I see that your flop check raise is quite small. 67 into 24. Howcome not a bigger sizing?
I also noticed the last hand was an ante table. It is 3/6/1.2. My friend told me a way to calculate which is (3+6+1.2)*(2/3) = 6.73 which means the effective big blind you are playing is 3.36/6.73 in which a 12 raise would only be a 1.78bb raise. So when defending my blinds I would then be looking at defending frequencies suitable vs a 1.78bb raise. Is this an ok way to approach a loser defending range for ante games?
Thanks Pacmang!
I definitely think any time we are completely unbalanced that this could be a potential problem. If I know you never bluff, then I'm able to turn a large profit against you by always folding.
As to defending odds, we need to look at our equity postflop equity compared to our pot odds. In a non ante game, we get roughly 3.5 : 1 on a minraise or we get need to win 22% of the time. In an ante game we get 28.2 to 6 or we need to win roughly 17.5% of the time. Unfortunately the devil is in the details. Postflop equity is hard to calculate and implied odds effect outcomes greatly. Check out my video 5/10 hands and equity realization for my take on the topic.
Great video, really enjoyed the HH review format!!
Tyler, This is my favorite format. It's great to see you play a lot of hands but still be able to explain in depth. You were also v. funny especially in the 2nd half of the vid.
Thanks Jen! You made my day :).
i second this, can't stop laughing at the monologue from 31:40 - 32:22, pure gold mate
I enjoyed this vid , thx again for your nice work , you really awesome =)
Thanks Britney!
On which sites do you play nowadays?
Mainly Bovada. I'm back in the U.S.
That's great I was just thinking how RIO needs a in house Bovada coach!!! Would love to see some love play !! :D
USA!!
how do you adjust on bovada? you have good reads on so many players in ur vids
Do you have any advice what is "the best site" to play after p* changes?
@FBB I use player pool tendencies and some basic game theory frequencies. Although I enjoy having very thorough reads on players, I'm confident that I gain more information about their games than they can about mine in short time frames.
@Hakunamata Pokerstars is still going to be the best, but its no longer the no brainer choice that it was even last year. On a side note, I'm really confused on why they decided to damage their monopoly.
Do preflop equity calculators include implied/ reverse implied odds?
Can we not just use our raw preflop equity and pot odds to determine preflop action?
Example: We open and get 3B with a hand with 25% equity vs villian's range. Getting 3:1 odds on the call is it a breakeven proposition to call?
Hi D4rkside,
Preflop calculators don't include implied odds, because they are highly range/skill dependent.
As to your example, it could be a call or fold it depends on your skill level against your opposition and the playability of the equity. A hand like 76s has less pure equity, but makes more nut hands which will make it more playable. I'm not giving the topic justice in this post, because its literally a book worth of material on implied odds and hand values. Check out my video: "$5/$10 NL and equity realization" for more of my thoughts.
Hi Tyler, don't understand why we should call at 28'10 against his bet, i don't pupt him on a lot of bluffs as he cbets, i don't think that he will have a lot of 9x in his range and would not transform in bluff a queen here. So even if we are at the top of our range and fold is definitely exploitable, we cant' just fold ? He maybe have some KJss type of hands river but i don't find that he have a lot of combos to bluff with. Ty ! And thanks for the vid ;)
and what would you do at 39' if vilain bets the turn ?
Why you remove all 56s, 86s, T8, TJ combos out of his range?
Hi Kaizen, he has all the combos JTo, T8s, 86s and possibly T8o and 86o as well. Quick count he'll have 24 bluff combos to 19 value combos if he's tight. If he's loose, he'll have 48 combos of bluffs to 19 combos of value hands. I have to call even if he never bluffs a pair.
@85cc, its a turn fold if he jams (equity calculation). In hindsight, I should have jammed the flop. Its the highest ev play here (I'm rarely worse than 40% and he could be bluffing).
Ok i thought that this was a fold with JTo, T8o, 86o turn in his shoes as he didn't have the odds to call (but maybe implied) and we can easily check call river on a blank if he calls those hands and extract more value.
Yeah if doesn't call those hands, then I could safely check/fold board pairs, but then he would have a profitable call with those hands, because I would frequently c/f the river. This logic train means that its optimal to call some of these hands on the turn.
Good point lol, thanks for the answer
Hey Tyler,
PLEASE please please make a video on how to build our preflop 3B'ing ranges.
You are a mathmatical, problem solving genius. I have watched all of your videos AT LEAST twice. Thank you for all your hard work!!
Thanks for the compliments! And unfortunately some things need to stay proprietary. ☺
Hi Tyler,
25:00 You mention that you like to XR flop with a diamond because it gives you a better bluffing hand to barrel off on runouts containing a diamond. The obvious flip side of this to me is that it is worse to have a diamond in our hand on non-diamond runouts when we barrel off (the perfect example being this exact hand). Since the diamond will miss roughly twice as often as it will hit, it seems like we are actually choosing a hand that has undesirable blocking effects when preparing to barrel off on a (likely) blank runout (blocking his missed FDs). It would seem like we would only want to have a diamond in roughly a third of our 3barrel candidates when XRing the flop. Is this splitting hairs to finely or is there another important variable I am not considering? Always a pleasure watching your videos. Thank you for the fine content.
Thank you for your thoughts and you are completely right. It wasn't one of my better hands :).
Amazing video and thought process, really enjoyed !
In these scenarios when the board run out in a way that villain constructs a overbetting value and bluff range, is he also suppose to have a "normal/non-overbetting" range on the river? If so , doesn't this range become weak and unable to defend against BBs river c/r (since he is overbetting alot of nuts and great blocker hands) ?
He could. He would bet some hands smaller as strong as the BBs strongest to protect against BB checkraises. Otherwise as you point out, BB would be able to take advantage of the smaller betsizing, by raising more hands for value (and increasing the bluffing frequency).
"And that's the end of his day" lmao that line killed me. Great stuff, keep it up man.
i just came to write this. the dry delivery is gold.
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