Turn Overbets: Deviations Against Population

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Turn Overbets: Deviations Against Population

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Antonio Miranda

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Turn Overbets: Deviations Against Population

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Antonio Miranda

POSTED Jun 14, 2021

Antonio Miranda examines turn overbets and seeks to identify patterns in this line within the population and ways to combat this trendy strategy.

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Had0uken 3 years, 9 months ago

Exercises:
1) Expecting more folds in case b), given our opponent is overfolding the flop we expect them to be folding a lot of hands that connect with the Q on the flop.
2) a) Expecting overcalls, while similar logic applies here as in 1) our opponent is no longer overfolding the flop and a lot of their continuance range will pick up pairs/ draws to continue.
b) Overcalls, clearly there's a lot of hands that have a reason to call the turn now as there's a lot of pair+SD hands as well as TP/ SPGK hands which aren't wanting to fold anyway.
c) Overfold, in reality I expect a lot of players to overcall in this spot as people tend to be too stubborn on static runouts, however the question says villain is playing optimally and in this case, the turn card doesn't bring in a great deal of draws as a lot of 4x and 5x is folding the flop.
I think I have the right thought process here but not sure, any feedback would be appreciated, thanks for a great video!

Antonio Miranda 3 years, 9 months ago

Hi Had0uken, thanks a lot for the kind words and sorry for the delay, I intentionally delayed the answer to see if more people wanted to try the exercises too.

Exercice 1:
Expecting more folds on A72r Q or AQ2r 7 ?
I think case a) is gonna be more overfolded because I expect population calling on the turn all Ax and some Qx and in case 1 player is overfolding flop which means that he hasn't a lot of Qx and even GTO will mix the call with some 7x. At AQ2r7 at least they have all Qx.

Exercise 2: against GTO Preflop and flop and flop strategy, we expect overfold or overcalls at:

a) K65r J - I expect overfolds again the amount of Jx that OOP hits is very small which translates into OOP being supposed to call some 6x and 5x that population tens to don't find

b) AsJh7h 9s - Super clear spot where we expect overcalls, turn hits with OOP calling range, tons of mid hands with extra equity and strong draws. I expect solver to fold the weaker pair + GS, Jx without extra equity and weaker FDs

c) AK3r 2 - this is a bit tricky and the key is what they do with Kx, the amount of Ax and Kx in OOP range is high, which means that OTT solver needs to mix calls and folds with Kx even if the turn is dry. I think most players tends to call all Kx which translate into they overcalling.

In both spots b) and c) I expect overcalls but they are quite different since overcalls comes from different parts b) extra equity hands c) Mid pair region (Kx)
Which allow us to play different exploits depending on River tendencies.

You did a good job overall, seems that you are doing fine understanding how turn card hits both ranges but you're underestimating how important is the hiting freq on the flop.

Let me know if I can help with something!
Thanks a lot!

tanmay333 3 years, 9 months ago

Great video antonio.
At 6:06, why is 52 calling more than 56, wouldn't a potential bluff like J4 have more equity against 52 than 56?

Antonio Miranda 3 years, 9 months ago

Hi tanmay, good question.

I think you're right and it is weird. I did take a look no the sim and I didn't see any clear idea, both 6x and 2x work similar blocking value range and there isn't any clear patterns with different 5x suits. But is not only 52 and 65. Seems that medium kicker 6x call more than medium kicker 2x, but with low kicker solver prefers to call 65 52 42 32 over 65 64 63.

The bigger thing I found is river strategy when pairs with 2x or with 6x.

A6286 is decent card for OOP and IP plays super polar shove or check and check 80%+
But at A6282 , 2x is not hat great for OOP and IP bets thinner like A9+
Then hiting trips on the river with 52 is better than 65. But I'm unsure that this is the only reason. Maybe is something easier like mixing both 6x and 2x for board coverage.
I'll take a deeper look later and come back if I find a better explanation.

Thanks!

SenseiMadrid 3 years, 5 months ago

Dear Antonio Miranda ,
Is there a reason why you gave 125% for the solver? I might not be up to date, but I saw a lot of 150% turn overbet solutions. Did you compared the to in solvers? Or why did you choosed 125%?
Thanks a lot!

Antonio Miranda 3 years, 5 months ago

Hi Sensei.
Sizing used in the video is 137% ( at the middle between 125 and 150 ).
I think is a good sizing overall. At most spots EV diff is very small but if you wanna go crazy with sizings in some spots will prefer a larger one like 150-180% and in other spots will move to 100%.
Main idea is to use a larger one at more dry textures ( more polar range )
and use something close to pot if turn is more connected.

GL!

craghack 3 years ago

Antonio Miranda Very informative video as always. Just wanted to ask you because I have never heard you to talk about that topic in other videos. What do you think is a good bankroll management for someone who is starting to play Hunl? Are the games more variance heavy compared to 6max cash? And what is a good winrate (bb/100) for a low/mid stakes Hu player? Thanks in advance!

Antonio Miranda 3 years ago

Hi Craghack, it is very personal because it depends a lot:
- Edge vs the pool ( more win rate = smaller swings )
- Your mental game ( How much losing affects you? )
- Your game style ( more aggro and variance heavy? )

You need to manage it in a way that allows you to feel comfortable.

About a decent win rate, hard to say because at low/mid stakes rake is insane and isn't easy to have huge win rate.

I'll feel comfortable puting a lot of work building a strat and learning/improving as much as posible and the go with a risky/aggro bankroll management trying to move up as fast as possible cause as I said rake is very high at low stakes but this is not recommended to eveybody.

If you don't need the money for living and assuming you're a winning player something like 30-40 buy ins sounds ok for the aggressive strat. If you prefer to be in the safe zone something like 100.

Sorry for the delay! GL

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