Conquering The Live Poker World: Introduction
Posted by Akshar Patel
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I don't mean to be rude, but posting a video called "Conquering the Live Poker World" by a 1/2 player (according to his post history) laughable. Why is Akshar stuck playing the lowest and easiest stake in the world if he has useful insights into live poker? It strains credulity.
I mentioned at the beginning of this video that this is for people who are new to the live scene. If this video is not for you that is completely ok. Who says I am stuck playing this stake? I play most of my volume online currently and enjoy playing live poker for a bit of a change and to make content for people who are perhaps struggling or want to play these games .
Saying you don't mean to be rude and then proceeding to be rude doesn't absolve you in my opinion.
As a long-time RIO customer, I think it's reasonable to request coaches that are qualified to teach and presented accurately. In a comment on June 2, 2020 you said that you play 1/2 live. Don't act like I'm pulling this out of thin air, this is what you said yourself.
If you're playing 1/2 live, that is strong evidence that you aren't a successful live player. I don't think RIO should present you as an authority that should be listened to about live poker when you are at the bottom of the live totem pole and haven't achieved success.
Dan, while your concerns may be valid just know that in the UK (which I assume Akshar is from based on his accent) 1/2 deep stack games are the primarily games that run just so you know
hapagto I've played in UK many times and never seen a poker room where 1/2 was the highest stake
As an essential member, I am not interested in some pro playing 5/10 at this point.
As a prominently online player, I have often been confused by the 1/2 table dynamics in London. Yes, I could win but I never felt I won for the maximum so I welcome the addition of Akshar Patel and will be looking forward to hearing his views on how to beat these live games.
Dan A I haven't watched the video yet, but I am or was primarily a live player for $1/$3 and $2/5 games for last couple years before Covid. I completely understand where you are coming from with your comments and don't take offense to them really. I think the feed back like yours can be helpful to coaches creating future content and what the community expects. I was recently talking to Eldora about this earlier today. I myself am very blunt with some of my words and some times people get defensive as they may come off unprofessionally, but I know our comments are just trying to get the most out of what we are paying for. We just have to work on wording things a bit better to make sure it doesn't fall on deaf ears when people read it. Once people get defensive about what you say, anything that follows after is going to go in one ear and out the other and they won't think twice about it.
Will share my thoughts on the video after I watch right now, but found your comments helpful actually. I tend to think in terms of BB though and not $, but one thing coming from a live background that really helped me crush live environment for around 9-11bb/hr is realizing people do not think in BB but monetary value. If pot is $500 and you bet $200, the "$200" is still a "big bet" in the live environment because they have no clue how much is in the pot usually. They just know people who bet $200+ are usually nutted so they fold. Hope this helps future comments. Will share my feed back on video in about an hour.
I don´t understand the background. Akshar is answering that he enjoys playing live for a bit of change as a high volume online player. And then I see the video "0.5/1 - Live Pro Goes Virtual" from the same person presenting him as a live professional in June 2020?!
jensour It's clearly just a smokescreen being used as a reputational hedge:
A) "I'm only playing 100NL online because I'm a live player, and just using online for practice to improve my technical game"
B) "I'm a high-volume online player. Just starting out at 1/2 live to build up my live skills since I'm inexperienced live"
Two contradictory mirror-image claims of playing such low stakes in each respective domain since it isn't his primary area of focus. Clearly BS b/c he hasn't had any success sufficient to move up from low stakes in live or online.
Dan A jensour I don't know if you two watch his other videos, but he is a solid low stakes player. I'm sure he does well live as well being online games are much tougher. He is making essential videos not Elite. Essential is basically for 200NL and under and if he was an "elite" coach he would probably make videos for other stakes, but that is not what he is paid for. He is paid to provide us with information on beating these low stakes.
While I disagree with some of his live advice, his online advice is very solid. His live advice is not totally wrong either, but it won't make you a crusher at live low stakes. It will have you follow some etiquette though. I think you two are looking too literally into titles, which some coaches don't even choose titles to their videos, RIO is choosing the title for them as I have learned recently. Don't take things so literally and the video will be much better when obtaining information whether you agree or not.
There are tons of members who take my advice and have no idea how high or low I play, but I am not being criticized based on the stakes I play because it is solid advice. Not going to get into a "pissing match" on smoke screens or he is just trying to market himself etc etc. I would just suggest keeping a more open mind to what he is saying and ignore the title.
Great Video!
But, is it just me or did you have some audio problems? I heard a very low-pitched bum from time to time which was pretty annoying.
Apologies for that . My mic is good so I am unsure what the issue would be. I will check with the editors and make sure the quality is better next time.
Just want to comment on your suggestion of playing late….
I tend to disagree. I have found the morning games to be pretty great games. And they also happen to work out really well with lifestyle quality. (being on more normal hours to have a social life/make plans with other people)
The reason I find them to be really good, is the games trend to be on the more passive side, so we win more pots uncontested/realize more equity, and experience low variance. I also notice, that many of the true regs who do it for a living, tend to come in closer to noon. I can recall many scenes where me and my buddy will get there to grind around 9 am, play, and as we are leaving in the afternoon, we see a flood of professionals coming into the room haha. There is also something to be said to starting the morning games. What I notice, is games will often start with weak players, and then if you come in a couple hours later, the seats you are filling are those weak players who got busted.
I also find the late games to have insane variance. Often seeing 7x+ raise sizes, and just generally having to play super nitty due to us needing large raise sizes to isolate situations headsup( and still experiencing lots of cold calling even when we make it like 8x preflop lol). However, there are def times where late games are truly insane(Friday nights in particular). But I have come around to believe that adjusting my whole week for one juicy night just isn’t worth it, and having overall greater lifestyle quality trumps this. But maybe all of this is just a result in living in a good area for poker. florida) Imagine a lot of this is personalized. But know even in Texas the morning games were always quite good
I can second almost everything you say coming from west coast California. There was a group of guys who would come in for 2-3 hours every other morning 9am - noon or so and grind some before they go to work and these morning games were super splashy and fun. I did find all times of day to be really profitable though. The late games the stacks tend to be deeper and these stakes even if they are $1/$3 play more like $2/5 and $2/$5 will play more like $5/10 (shallow stack). If you think in BB where 8bb open is a large raise, you just end up over folding too much and miss out on a lot of value because people are calling these 6x opens with Q8s or ATo etc. I do agree super high variance as over two years, i've had some of my biggest wins and biggest losses at night.
I will saying playing late a night might be profitable, but there is something to be said about not being able to play your A-game because of sleep, diet, exercise to go with making more money. If you can play 2000 hours a year between 9am - 10pm range on your A game and make 10bb/hr or play 1,000 hours a year at 15bb/hr which would you choose? There is a HUGE benefit to sacrificing a few bucks an hour for longevity of your A-Game for years on.
Lastly "Friday night" over the past year or so I found Friday's to be one of the worst days because everyone says Friday night is the best, so it attracts a lot of pros and makes for really bad games some times, might be 1-3 fish with some decent stacks, but you end up having 3-4pros on the table or decent regs at least on the same table as well. My biggest winning day last year was actually on Sunday! Casino is slow with only a few tables, but for whatever reason the lack of pros I guess just increased my win rate. I think Thursday was 2nd biggest winning day.
One last thing about morning games, at the casino I played in, they ran morning tourneys as well, so you get a lot of tourney players trying to make their buy-in before the tourney and end up donating in the cash game before the tourney most of the time. You get a lot of them who hit & run once they make their buy-in, but that is another reason some morning cash games are really good. You get bunch of tourney players or early afternoon when you get tilted tourney players (myself) who would donate 3-4 buy-in after losing tourney. Definitely learned to take a couple hour break after the tourney before jumping into the cash game.
RunItTw1ce not sure what you mean by overfolding to 8x opens? If you mean facing the 8x opens, it depends on the player and their range.
If you mean opting to fold some lower hands because we are 8xing it, then I think that is the correct adjustment to make. Like not opening 98s from LJ if we are 5x+ing it everytime, just trying to get pots heads up(but maybe continue opening ATo type stuff, because we actually have domination, as you said, against their calling range).... I think this is what you are referring to. If so, I think the way you exploit somoneone who doesn't fold is to just have good hands more often. Obv things change alot when IP, as you can play really well and also don't have to mash it as huge
Didn't word that correctly. What I meant to say was that when you are facing a large raise, you shouldn't be over folding some of these more marginal hands. For a lot of players 5x opens is just their stand open, they may be opening QJo UTG for $25 because it's part of their range and are not considering their raise size, position, range, etc. Have to pay attention because now hand like AQo might be a 3 bet vs this player despite 5x open. Might have to make it $75 to isolate them heads up, even if you only have $400 stack.
Just hope people are not stagnant with their ranges because on RFI sizing a lone. The player is going to be more important than the actual sizing. Also with Hero's sizing, it should be flexible based on table dynamics. Can't just go in and say if I get QQ+ i'm going to open 6x and If I get JJ i'm going to open 5x etc. Live poker is not like that. Really depends on stack size, standard open size, how many callers etc, You know all of this already i'm sure. Just mentioning it for anyone else who reads this.
Example if you have JJ on the button and folded to you, if you have two nits in the blinds, you might just make it $15 (3bb), but if you have whale in the BB, you might make it $30 (6bb) because he always calls his BB and says something like "pot odds." Live poker is a completely different monster from online games.
Great intro to live games. What stakes you play does not matter as long as the quality of the content is high.
Would add
1) talk about how to not be bored at the casino between hands, with 25-30 hands an hour might only play 5 hands an hour and be bored for 50 out of 60 minutes. I would say paying attention to how each person is playing helps you from getting bored and not just focused on your own hands / ranges.
2) Don't play robotic like online with sizing. If whale is calling any bet size, try and find pain threshold, so if you have a premium hand, might even being opening 10x to maximize value.
3) I agree with 3-5 buy-in with you when you go play. If you do play long session there will be some sessions that are more high variance. I think worse session was around 6 buy-in, but having 3 buy-in and topping off sounds to be about the average needed. I would always have enough where I could go with my reads and call down light if needed. Don't have to over fold because I only have 1 rebuy left. The moment you make a fold because you can't reload, it's time to go home. I once seen a guy fold a set against a combo draw. He tanked forever and the other guy turned his hand face up and told him do whatever he wants. So knowing he's the favorite to win with a set, but not able to reload he folded rather than taking the edge because he had to drive an hour+ to go back home.
4) Planning on set # of hours is great discipline! Don't get stuck in casino all night trying to get unstuck! Very bad for your mental game and don't play scared or over folding just because you are leaving soon. I remember folding AQ in EP because it was last hand and I was even on the session and didn't want to have a losing session.
5) Best times to play imo are 5pm-1am, casino I played at cutoff drinks at 1:30am. but also if you are a six max player, playing late a night 2am-6am when games are more short handed can be really profitable as well. You are not against a ton of recs, but you are in a game with a bunch of full ring regs who are stuck / tilted and trying to get even, so you get to help them go home by busting them or doubling them up. Either way they are not on their A-game and tend to gamble a bit more. Can really abuse some of these FR regs who usually just bum hunt and hope to get paid off by fish but their game is awful against any decent reg.
6) In terms of getting a seat at the casino, if you are a regular get to know some of the staff. Remember a lot of the staff floor and dealers are not making much hourly and they are all hustlers, You can get a seat by tipping the floor usually whether it is wrong morally because you are cutting in line, this is the business and I promise you every casino does it. Can tip the floor when they bring you chips or get your seat etc. Money talks when getting a seat even on Friday nights when list is long, might have to throw in an extra $5 to get a seat. You can even tip front desk to boost name on the list. If you can tip $5-$10 to get a seat instead of waiting an hour on the list, is it worth it?
7) in terms of playing 100bb is not really true in live games because opening sizes are usually much larger. You can be in a $1/$2 game where standard open is $15 and avg stack is $500. Is it really a $1/$2 game at this point or is it a $2/$5 game? Understanding that blinds are $1/$2 but $15 is more like 3bb is crucial to understanding ranges. So while you are 250bb deep technically, you are more like 100bb deep and people think in monetary value and not in terms of bb. If you tell someone you bet 20bb and pot was 60bb they will have no idea what you are talking about. So definitely learn to treat some 200bb games as if they are 100bb and you will do much better. Would say $2/$5 game where avg open is $20-$25 you are better off thinking of this game as you are 50bb deep ($500) in a 5/10 game and applying a 50bb strategy to the game. Then when you reach $1,000 (200bb) you are more closer to actually being 100bb based on RFi sizing. If you want to maximize your hourly in live games this is the best way imo to go about it. I was only 5-7bb / hr for my first year grinding live. Don't limit your skill set because you only call "XYZ range" against 3bb opens and call "XYZ range" against 5bb opens. you are just hurting yourself financially with this thought process.
8) I strongly disagree with rake structure impact. I was playing in a $6 "drop" live games which is quite high compared to most places. This is strongly off set by how bad the players are in terms of being a winning / losing player. If regulars / pros avoid "high rake" games that is great! because now you are on a table filled with recreational players. Do you really want to grind a promotion with a bunch of regs who also grind there because of promotion and lower rake? Also in terms of bad beat jack pot etc, yes, it is higher rake, but SUPER LUCRATIVE when fish are calling all in for 1 outer straight flush. I would say you Akshar Patel need more of a mindset for making money rather than saving money. This held me back for a while, but I learned from years of experience. Your tips are very helpful, but just gotta make sure these lower rake games are soft still. Playing against 8 recs with higher rake and no promotion I would choose 100% of the time over a 3 fish / 6 reg game with lower rake and promotion. The $200 you earn a week from promotion is off set a ton by amount of opportunities you get from stacking recs every day.
9) Knowing your two players on your left is important, but I wouldn't discount knowing the two players on your right so much. Being able to 3 bet them (2 on your right) light or isolate them, knowing their pain threshold and what hands they are limp calling with is going to be more financially beneficial than stealing the blinds. Knowing the players on my left, just allows me to basically have 2 buttons each orbit is guy on my left is a nit.
10) Also disagree with waiting your turn to look at your cards. One way to spot a regular is see who waits their turn to look at their cards, usually this player will have some live experience and some old fashion tips. It's important to not give things away like you are going to fold when it gets to you, but there are MANY TIMES where I watch someone looking at their cards and see their eyes get big "let's make it $20" and they might as well turn their hand face up. I know you meant this video for beginners, but imo playing live poker for a few years professionally, some of this advice is false. Just quickly look at your cards, put a chip on top, quickly scan the table for any reads as others look at their cards, then you can make a decision when it's your turn to act whether limping, raising, folding, etc. Strongly disagree with waiting your turn to look at your cards because most people can't control their facial ticks, but they can quickly glance at their cards and wait their turn and avoid folding out of turn or raising out of turn. Much easier to control than your eyes.
11) In terms of taking notes on your phone, I think that is fine to do, but don't make it obvious especially if you're in the 4-5-6 seats in a full ring game. Putting your phone away while you play and interacting with players is big.
12) not commenting on hands - usually good idea, but if someone seems to question their decision, don't tell them the correct way to play. If REC stacks off JJ vs AA preflop in a MP vs UTG 4bet pot which is obvious leak both online and live for full ring, it is fine to comment on the hand by say "wow cooler!" Or "unavoidable" to make them feel better about their decision. I would say "I would do the same thing or Can't fold jacks" etc etc. I think comments after hands just need to encourage bad play. If someone makes a tight fold "How can you fold that?" By doing this you also give yourself a "fishy image" even though you folded every hand for the last hour. There is a ton of social things you can do to get the tabling gambling. I think this video is too much of a "nitty approach" to live games for lack of better words.
13) Also end of the video you mention just having phone, head phones, wallet etc on you. Live poker is meant to be a social game if you are going to crush. A lot of tables are not social, but doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be social as you said talk about football, movies, etc. Avoid politics, surprised you mentioned that twice! One of the things you NOT supposed to talk about as a common rule in live poker. Don't talk strategy, don't talk about politics. Everything else is probably fine to talk about. Leave your head phones in your car! Sends a bad message at the poker table that you are just a grinder and not there to socialize if you are wearing ear phones.
Would love to offer suggestions or information for future live videos Akshar Patel you make if you PM me. I climbed the ranks and have several live pro friends as well that would all agree with my comments above.
Lastly I found Eliot Roe (A-game master class) to be extremely helpful for live games! Helped my game so much! I still listen to his MP3s when I'm grinding online as well.
Thank you for the feedback . I will take this into account
Nice video and nice reply at the same time.
I agree that some of the points of Ashkar might be inaccurate in certain contests.
Maybe we can open a tread in the forum to add all the possible suggestions from everybody, I guess would be helpful.
What bankroll and open size/ range would you advice for lowest live stakes ? (2/2 3/4) Thank
Hi, I would recommend 50BI as a professional as a minimum in live poker games. If you are a serious recreational then 30BI is enough. Preflop ranges will be in the next video which will come after I get back home from holiday.
Looking forward to this series, I play online all week but on Fridays I do go play live 1/2 and it is a totally different game. Don't understand why there is so much hate in the comments if the content doesn't apply to you go watch another video. Most of the content I watch is geared towards online play where I mostly play $11MTTs or 25NL but very little content available for live play where i am literally going to play with 8 Buy-ins essentially and have very little content available to look at.
I am stuck basically to one card room where I play against the same opponents pretty much every week, some competent and some absolutely terrible. Issue I have most of the time is the amount of cold calling that goes on, even trying to isolate is pretty challenging and is rare a pot goes heads up. Any suggestions as to where i can try to improve or adjust to increase my win rate?
If you are having trouble getting pots heads up, raise bigger! When I first transitioned to live, that was a tough one for me too, and I had a pretty big downswing because of it.
I was asking my friend who had only played live with no online background, and he said same thing, and at the time sounded crazy to me. Even if you have to make it 10x preflop to get it heads up, that's what you gotta do. Playing heads up is where all the EV comes from. Basically, find the threshold where you start getting it 2-3 way most often. It's okay if everyone folds occasionally; that's alot better result than going 4-5-6-9 way constantly.
From an online background, 10xing it preflop sounds crazy, but the average player is a different animal live. Alot of the guys in live games are young-old professionals in other fields/retired and have money to blow. They go there for the action, not to make money
Yeah I think you are right I might just have to make the adjustment and tighten my ranges and like you said go as big as I need to get it to heads up and try find that threshold for the game I am playing.
nice, more live poker content, please
This is great! I've been looking for more live poker content. Can't wait for the rest of the series. Thanks man!
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