$50/$100 Live Play and Hand Analysis
Posted by Sauce123
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Sweet!
@24.45 Is this river bet size not transparent? are we balancing by betting hands such as AxAc for a similar sizing and bluffcatching vs a jam with that holding?
If by 'transparent' you mean something like "is it EV maximizing for my opponent to raise (nearly) every better hand for value?" the answer is no.
Can you discuss your small blind strategy facing a min raise(or similar effective sizing in an ante game)? In particular can you discuss what if any slowplays you have? I noticed in your PIO sim you weren't slow playing preflop and raising a typical bb 3-bet range. Do you have a flat 4-bet range in the small blind? Or do you play call call/fold?
Brian, I don't think there's much slowplaying in the small blind vs RFI.
Thx a lot for this video...50/100 live play...and so many interesting spots to learn from.. its really a Christmas gift!
Its actually a very good idea indeed to finish with some PIO analysis from the session's hands.
(btw to show more clearly to the audience, you can click on strategy+EV button so we can see exactly how each hand is split between different actions)
1:15 when you say you will be playing a mostly raise/fold strat on left and mostly limp strat on right, you are refering to your approach from SB correct?
If so this is awsome cos i my friend is working with this sicko, and he has this sheet which appeartly explains how to play from SB at a 100bb cashgame. this sheet appearently explains how its the best approach vs people who will defend wide. however i have not seen any of the RIO cash pros implementing this strat in any of the cashgame vids i have seen. (granted i havnt watched too much of the cash content)
Ben i would really appreciate you opinion on weather u think limping in the sb has superiority over opening.
I think at non ante the best strategy is a mix of limping/raising, but raise/only doesn't lose that much and is quicker/easier.
With antes the price on a limp becomes very good and so limping has to be used often.
Thxs great work!
15:08 A6s Why bet so large in this kind of flop (so dry) and little fold equity? thats affect hero frecuencies T-R and also hero comitted in turn with really bad equity again his push range blocking the critical draws 6x (66) and FD.
20:00 AJ blocking his calling range AxJx (AT-A4-JT-KJ) dont see a clear value.
29:27 QT RCB 38h89h here in our frecuencies bluff we block some part of his value range and be over 67-JT-7J-FD... so this kind of hands dont plaqy better like call? and bluff 67-FD without SD value?
33:22 36s after V 4b you mean "easy shove" again 99,55-(44 probably call 3b?),A9s,A5s-A4s, we are 40% Eq so we need a clear lecture from V range to take this line like EV-, I miss something?
Could you shared the Pio tree please? I wanna deep more why A6 is more in X range and Turn equitys.
Thxs
@15:08- We bet because our range is pushing a lot of EV and protection is important.
@20- It might have been better to bet like 25% pot here.
@29:27- I don't love the turn XR here. But I think he's mostly 3barreling hands
@33:22- Fold equity is important
I don't like to share Pio trees because it gives my opponents access to too detailed preflop reads on me.
Great vid again Ben! Always admirable to see you jumping in vs the best players.
19:00 would you ever consider X/R AJo on this board on the turn? What would you do with AK/AQ in this spot?
AQ+ is mostly going to be bet/shove. AJ might XR occasionally, but I think we're playing a mostly polarized range here.
Ben really giving the people what they want!
WRT to the 99553 board, you say our value range is only 5x/9x, it seems like 1.3 pot is maybe a bit small for being this polarized? Maybe Trueteller felt this way also.
Yea it might be like 2x pot.
hi ben,
19:15 what is the weakest hand we can bet for value for this sizing here?
30:39 how do you decide which hands to use as a x/r for value and as a bluff here?
19.15 on the left AJ on AJxT? u mean on turn or river?
@19:15- If you mean bet turn for value and often shove river for value, probably A8-A9 or so. If you mean to value bet turn, probably any A.
@30:39- Value is any 2PR+, some TP as well depending on assumptions. Bluffs are generally 5th-4th pair, maybe some random 7x/33 too not sure.
Thank you for this very interesting video. Could you please elaborate on why a bigger size is preffered from btn in ante games (2.7x) compared to 2.3 in non ante? How much does your opening range decrease by choosing the bigger comparing to the smaller sizing and where do the benefits come from? Do you preffer it in mtts as well, where population is far worse than the players you're facing and will generally overfold equity? Thank you very much!
vlad, raise more often as your raise size is less % pot. There are also small-moderate EV gains to be made by the precise size of your raise but they tend to be relatively small. Anything between 2.5-3.2x or something is likely fine. We'll know for sure when somebody solves a bunch of 3h models for button EV for varying raise sizes but obv that's a hard problem.
Glad to see you finally taking a shot from the usual 2/5 games. Merry Xmas!
great video.
at 34min, katya chk back 8s7x on 654ss with u only having 2600 stack. do we need to do this so shallow?
also, generally do u do blocker bets when a large part of ur range wants to get to showdown and u r willing to sacrifice betsize for stronger parts of range in order to help out the part that rly wants to blocker bet? (like a 24min 544cc9c7 wit JJ, u say u go 9x+ here but do u have more than 1 size here?)
@34min, My guess is Katya is making an exploitative X behind with the 8s7x thinking I'll play poorly on the turn.
@24min, You're always playing every hand in your range to maximize its EV. It can still be true that a small sizing is EV maximizing if the GTO raise frequency over small bet is high enough that it's >= EV to larger sizings.
Two c-bet spots.
1) SB limp You raise BB SB call
Flop Ax8c4c
sb ch you choose the small bet sizing
2) btn 200 sb fold, you BB 560, btn call
Flop AJ4r
You bet ~60% pot
I feel like I would size these textures the exact opposite sizings that you chose. AJ4r is a more difficult board for the pre flop caller to find enough continues on against the small sizing. It's also a board where equities are more static so protection/sizing large to lower the EV of inelastic continues is less of a thing on this texture.
On A84cc there are a variety of additional draws that the OOP player can choose to continue with. It's seems like the small sizing doesn't really give IP the auto profiting c-bet option as easily as on AJ4r. Additionally, equities run much closer and a lot of OOP's calling range on flop is inelastic to sizing, which I think incentivizes IP to c-bet this board less frequently and size up larger when he chooses to c-bet (since our value range is generally pushing less equity than on AJ4r).
Is my reasoning sound in these spots?
One other question, does the M.O.P. geometric sizing toy game apply more on AJ4r or A84cc? I feel like it should apply more on the more static board textures because frequent texture shifts can throw a big wrench into a 3 street geometric sizing strategy.
I think you need less M.O.P and more computerpoker.
However, if you insist on "reasons" then I'll do my best. In a lot of IP spots we want to bet small because the tempo advantage of getting a free river with >40% of our range ends up being worth a lot of EV.
On the AJ4r OOP spot we just pick one size that's threatening a roughly geometric increase some value threshold (say A9) for that, and then balance a checking range with everything else along with some slowplays.
On the other hand, mostly I'm just making up narratives that explain the Pio results I'm referencing so you're prob just better off grinding that.
Hi Ben, could you define "tempo advantage"? I've heard you mention it a few times, but I'm not sure I understand what it means. In this particular case you seem to be referring to the idea that, if we bet flop and OOP calls, he will probably then check turn, allowing us to take a free card if we want. Is tempo different from initiative?
Is tempo a chess reference maybe? Others can probably explain it better than me, but the concept is something like gaining an extra strategic advantage in terms of moves (time) or forcing inefficiency with the opponent. I would think of initiative as being a symptom of that (or for poker, a few other factors) rather than it's own distinct thing.
I like Ben's comment here because he points out very accurately that humans want reasons and explanations for everything. Sometimes our old mental models work, but often they also don't. But that doesn't invalidate the correct play, it just means our old mental models are not sufficiently explaining what's going on.
And yet, it is human not only to err, but also to seek patterns and explanations in everything :)
Yes, tempo is a familiar concept in chess, it can refer either to the concept of time in general, or the unit of time, a single move. The thing is, in chess there's a lot of stuff you want to do that takes time, especially bringing out your pieces early in the game. I'm not sure what the comparison would be in poker. You're allowed to bet however much you want on any street, so there's not an obvious thing you want to do but don't have time for (at least, not obvious to me). The closest comparison I can think of is building a pot: if you miss a street of betting, in a sense you don't have time to build as big of a pot as you want. You could try to compensate with an overbet, but that has problems of its own.
Tempo is also commonly referred to in Magic, although it seems to mean something different than in chess, and it's even become a bit of a running joke recently that no one actually knows what it means in Magic.
So tempo is familiar in Magic and chess, but to mean different things, which may not be very well understood. As far as I can tell it's not a commonly used concept in poker. I can't remember ever hearing anyone other than Ben use it and a quick google search I just did as a sanity check didn't really turn anything up.
24:30 Table 1 JJ on 544cc, 7c, 9o
Do we need a block and a big sizing here or would PIO mostly prefer 1 smallish bet sizing with our whole betting range?
Merry Xmas and a happy New Year Ben <3
really appreciate your videos throughout 2016, helped me improve a ton!
GG 2016 and GL in 2017!!
@36:00 shouldn't the fact that villian has very few flushes, 98 and even 8x make us have two big sizings with 8x being significantly bigger than 1/3rd and 98+ huge? 1/3rd pot seems like such a waste of our hand in this spot and not maximising EV
cool video, tho did Ben grim at the end ? :)
Is there any reason that you aren't reloading to 100bb on the left table? Is it just to reduce variance and be in more +EV shove situations?
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