I found it challenging to do a live session so I'm curious to see if this format will be well received so please leave me feedback. That said, I have more footage of this session and can release more parts if there is demand.
The skin is poker4you on Winning network. I load money thru an agent who takes my green cash and loads it on the site. When I want a withdrawl I notify him and he gives me cash. He keeps some of my rake back for this service.
The HUD is holdem indicator and its mediocre. It only holds stats for each session given tables are anonymous.
10:00 when you bet overbet with no equity 32s, could you be potentially too active this spot if you are including no equity combos? That player is one of those passive guys who checks back the flop a lot so he can definitely has every 4x combo in his range. And your turn probe range is going to be checking back most 4x so I think (correct me if I'm wrong) but you can't really represent many value combos here that you are trying to represent?
I think I usually take the check back turn here, lead river as a "bottom of the range" bluff with the 32s if I were to defend that hand pre~
When you say check back, do you mean check? I ask because we are oop and that confused me a little.
Certainly we would like to lead turn with equity because it makes our required FE lower. However as long as our FE is high enough leading w no equity will be +ev. It was my exploitive read that his flop check range was consistently bottom and middle pair. Right or wrong, on that turn I felt those hands would fold often.
On river his range is capped and mostly weak other than rivered trips. In fact, that river is actually quite bad. The board pairing any other card would be better. If he checks back 7x and 4x at equal rate then the river bluff should still be +ev. But if he checks back flop mostly with 4x than I should give up on that river.
I think we credibly rep many hands. We are uncapped having 77, 44, T4s, 74s, straights, and I may even bet strong Tx on a lot of rivers.
From a GTO perspective we would be over bluffing if we include this hand but thats not relevant because we already know he isnt playing GTO instead he is playing with a very unbalanced flop cbet strategy. So we should just take an exploitive approach wherever we find +ev spots.
I meant to say check turn, sorry! I've been thinking about this hand a lot and I actually think I understand the logic now and agree with you on this spot. I was thinking that you wouldn't be betting 4x on the turn, but didn't realize that you are not repping 4x on the river, but all the strong hands (straights, boats) that you mentioned.
I think when I autopilot I miss good turn probe spots like this one even when I have no equity. River is close as you mentioned, but turn is definitely a good probe bluff. I think I might leak by playing too passive of a turn probe strategy. Probably why my red line is so shitty. I'm guessing you have a pretty good red line right?
Anyways, thanks for typing up a clarification to the play it helps me a lot since I was confused about the best way to play this spot. One thing that helped me is that you say in the video that he would bet a lot of his overcard + gutters on the flop and he is very capped on this turn. This type of thinking about board textures and ranges is something I need to work hard on in my own game.
25:45 Table 2: Tight guy opens and we 3b J8s, cause "it plays well vs his callingrange". Dont you think this hand is way too weak vs a tight UTG raiser? If not, your 3b% from MP most be astronimous!
Perhaps my wording was confusing. I wasn't implying I want to be called. Its more like "I want to have some bluffs vs his opens and this hand is a good candidate" The 3b was a bluff which we hope to have PF FE on. That said if we are called J8s has pretty good playability and equity vs that calling range.
Our 3b freq wont get too high because our 3b range will be polarized. Our value combos will be approx QQ-AA and AKs mixed in with a few bluffs like the one above. We will be flatting AQ,AJs,JJ type stuff.
Definitely make more PLO8/Live play. You are better when doing those videos (this one was kind of slow) and there are other guys for nlh on this side. You seem good at spoting overbets spots tho. Gl
~10.5 mins in on the top right we 3 bet KK vs a 50 BB stack. I was curious if your 3 bet sizing was any different because he is half stacking. Against a full stack when OOP Id be 3 betting to between 3.5 and 4X against a 2.5X but because he was at 50 BBs Id probably not go bigger than 3X since but its obviously not a huge deal.
I really don't know if I agree with the river shove, it seemed like you thought his range was very draw heavy on the turn and I would typically give him another chance to bluff on the river when we elect to check turn. I mean what hands are we targeting to get called ? pocket pairs, A high ? He certainly wouldn't need to be bluffing that high a percentage of his draw combos for a check to outperform a bet IMO. Unless you had a read that he was unlikely to bluff or a station in some spots and it was an exploitative adjustment, but in a vacuum i prefer a river check
In general, 3betting smaller vs shorter stacks is going to be a good approach. That said, a 50bb stack is more likely to be a weaker player and we want to 3bet as large as they will call. They probably call too wide so I wouldn't size down.
River is close and checking has merit becasue he certainly can check turn but bluff river with draws. My thoughts are that either action wont produce much extra EV. That said I think a jam slightly out performs a check. I expected most of his draws to bet turn and once he checks I don't think he will opt to bluff rivers often enough. He will however check back a lot of stuff he wants to get to SD with and may call river especially if he expects me to check over pairs making my betting range very poloarized.
At the time I didnt realize I could check. I thought I was on the other network. I don't think I can go back and look on Bovada though but those could be right guesses. It was an interesting river spot because I don't believe in multi purpose bets, ie ones that may be for value and as bluffs. I think you should have a clear plan for what the bet is accomplishing. However in that spot I knew he wouldn't fold better which implies if I bet it would be for value. But I also thought there was some chance he folds a chop which means a bet would be a bluff vs that range. I knew my hand was good so often that a bet was warranted to accomplish either of those results.
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I found it challenging to do a live session so I'm curious to see if this format will be well received so please leave me feedback. That said, I have more footage of this session and can release more parts if there is demand.
Likely next vids will be on PLO or PLO8.
Thanks
Zach
+1 for PLO8
What is the HUD you are using on Bovada? Also, what is the other network you are playing on? Is it US friendly?
The skin is poker4you on Winning network. I load money thru an agent who takes my green cash and loads it on the site. When I want a withdrawl I notify him and he gives me cash. He keeps some of my rake back for this service.
The HUD is holdem indicator and its mediocre. It only holds stats for each session given tables are anonymous.
table ninja will help you with your auto timebank. Im not sure if it works on these sites though.
I looked into it and it doesnt. Thanks
WPN has auto time bank. You have to click on the little gear to enable it.
10:00 when you bet overbet with no equity 32s, could you be potentially too active this spot if you are including no equity combos? That player is one of those passive guys who checks back the flop a lot so he can definitely has every 4x combo in his range. And your turn probe range is going to be checking back most 4x so I think (correct me if I'm wrong) but you can't really represent many value combos here that you are trying to represent?
I think I usually take the check back turn here, lead river as a "bottom of the range" bluff with the 32s if I were to defend that hand pre~
Loving the video so far!
When you say check back, do you mean check? I ask because we are oop and that confused me a little.
Certainly we would like to lead turn with equity because it makes our required FE lower. However as long as our FE is high enough leading w no equity will be +ev. It was my exploitive read that his flop check range was consistently bottom and middle pair. Right or wrong, on that turn I felt those hands would fold often.
On river his range is capped and mostly weak other than rivered trips. In fact, that river is actually quite bad. The board pairing any other card would be better. If he checks back 7x and 4x at equal rate then the river bluff should still be +ev. But if he checks back flop mostly with 4x than I should give up on that river.
I think we credibly rep many hands. We are uncapped having 77, 44, T4s, 74s, straights, and I may even bet strong Tx on a lot of rivers.
From a GTO perspective we would be over bluffing if we include this hand but thats not relevant because we already know he isnt playing GTO instead he is playing with a very unbalanced flop cbet strategy. So we should just take an exploitive approach wherever we find +ev spots.
I meant to say check turn, sorry! I've been thinking about this hand a lot and I actually think I understand the logic now and agree with you on this spot. I was thinking that you wouldn't be betting 4x on the turn, but didn't realize that you are not repping 4x on the river, but all the strong hands (straights, boats) that you mentioned.
I think when I autopilot I miss good turn probe spots like this one even when I have no equity. River is close as you mentioned, but turn is definitely a good probe bluff. I think I might leak by playing too passive of a turn probe strategy. Probably why my red line is so shitty. I'm guessing you have a pretty good red line right?
Anyways, thanks for typing up a clarification to the play it helps me a lot since I was confused about the best way to play this spot. One thing that helped me is that you say in the video that he would bet a lot of his overcard + gutters on the flop and he is very capped on this turn. This type of thinking about board textures and ranges is something I need to work hard on in my own game.
Thanks for the help~
25:45 Table 2: Tight guy opens and we 3b J8s, cause "it plays well vs his callingrange". Dont you think this hand is way too weak vs a tight UTG raiser? If not, your 3b% from MP most be astronimous!
Perhaps my wording was confusing. I wasn't implying I want to be called. Its more like "I want to have some bluffs vs his opens and this hand is a good candidate" The 3b was a bluff which we hope to have PF FE on. That said if we are called J8s has pretty good playability and equity vs that calling range.
Our 3b freq wont get too high because our 3b range will be polarized. Our value combos will be approx QQ-AA and AKs mixed in with a few bluffs like the one above. We will be flatting AQ,AJs,JJ type stuff.
on bovada you can see the HH of what he called you with on the Q8 hand at the end
I know, that was just a mental lapse thinking I was on the other site. Thanks.
Maybe mark this video as a HU ?
Definitely make more PLO8/Live play. You are better when doing those videos (this one was kind of slow) and there are other guys for nlh on this side. You seem good at spoting overbets spots tho. Gl
~10.5 mins in on the top right we 3 bet KK vs a 50 BB stack. I was curious if your 3 bet sizing was any different because he is half stacking. Against a full stack when OOP Id be 3 betting to between 3.5 and 4X against a 2.5X but because he was at 50 BBs Id probably not go bigger than 3X since but its obviously not a huge deal.
I really don't know if I agree with the river shove, it seemed like you thought his range was very draw heavy on the turn and I would typically give him another chance to bluff on the river when we elect to check turn. I mean what hands are we targeting to get called ? pocket pairs, A high ? He certainly wouldn't need to be bluffing that high a percentage of his draw combos for a check to outperform a bet IMO. Unless you had a read that he was unlikely to bluff or a station in some spots and it was an exploitative adjustment, but in a vacuum i prefer a river check
In general, 3betting smaller vs shorter stacks is going to be a good approach. That said, a 50bb stack is more likely to be a weaker player and we want to 3bet as large as they will call. They probably call too wide so I wouldn't size down.
River is close and checking has merit becasue he certainly can check turn but bluff river with draws. My thoughts are that either action wont produce much extra EV. That said I think a jam slightly out performs a check. I expected most of his draws to bet turn and once he checks I don't think he will opt to bluff rivers often enough. He will however check back a lot of stuff he wants to get to SD with and may call river especially if he expects me to check over pairs making my betting range very poloarized.
38min - q8 in 3bp when you thinly shove the river did you ever end up checking the hand to see what he had?
I think he probably had a hand like T9 or J9~
At the time I didnt realize I could check. I thought I was on the other network. I don't think I can go back and look on Bovada though but those could be right guesses.
It was an interesting river spot because I don't believe in multi purpose bets, ie ones that may be for value and as bluffs. I think you should have a clear plan for what the bet is accomplishing. However in that spot I knew he wouldn't fold better which implies if I bet it would be for value. But I also thought there was some chance he folds a chop which means a bet would be a bluff vs that range. I knew my hand was good so often that a bet was warranted to accomplish either of those results.
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