4 Table $10/$20 6-Max PLO Live Session
Posted by Phil Galfond
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Thank you Phil for this action packed video.
Q1. 14:46 top left
We bet on the Turn for protection, give up on the River and you said "I am not gonna turn 67 into a bluff and probably lose." Would you elaborate because it seems like our river bet would be always bet for value (trips+) and have almost no bluffs.
Q2. 16:30 top left
This is a spot that oftentimes tricky villain would attack by check/raise with wide range given we're capped by not cbetting the flop. In the meantime, when villain has better made hands such as JJ-KK, he rarely folds it on the Turn. Our draw would be very hard to value bet River when it hits,except non-heart 6. So what if we check the Turn and use our hand as bluff catcher on the river? I know it sounds silly because villain would only vbet QQ+ and x/f all worse hands. I guess my main concern is afraid of being check/raised and have to fold our good equity.
Thanks Adam (for the feedback and the easily readable questions)!
KJ76- We just have a bit too much showdown value with this hand to turn it into a bluff. It's not a lot of SD value, but it's non-zero. I don't think blocking boat outs is very relevant for betting here since he's extremely unlikely to have a boat, and a boat is a smallish part of our value range.
I think a lot of his calling hands will be Tx or overpairs. Since we won't be bluffing with Tx hands, I think that our best bluffing candidates will:
a) Block one or more of: A/K/Q/J
b) Block as few flush draws as possible
c) Lose to A6
d) Block 9 or 8 - not because I expect him to have straights, but because he will use these cards to justify lighter calls.
Something like AQJ8hhhh would be ideal if I get to pick all four cards :)
T972- I agree with all your points. I think that this bet works fairly well in practice but in theory would be better as a checkback. I don't think people plan enough x/rs here in practice so I lazily fired out of habit.
There are only two overcards to worry about since the J completes a straight, and one of each gives me a flush as well. I prefer a check. Thank you for pointing it out!
Thank you Phil for such detailed analysis!
For KJ67, most of time when I have marginal hands on double flush draw Turn card, I have problem of clearly forming villain's calling range and habitually put villain's range on draw much more often than made hand thus try to bluff in this kind of spots a lot (and being caught a lot).
For T972, I do like bet the Turn in practice too, especially against this specific opponent since he is less "tricky and good" than strong 10/20 lineup. But if it is the same spot against Skjevoy, I think betting Turn may be not optimal and would face high percentage of x/r.
Don't blame yourself for that. You're having a problem clearly forming villain's range in these spots because his range simply isn't clearly definable.
Putting in one call on a board with a ton of possibilities means he can have every type of hand... all he's eliminated from his range are the total air/very weak hands and a large % of the hands worth raising.
Be careful not to get too results oriented here. If the sample size of your recollection of spots like this is 5, 10, or even 25 hands, you're at the mercy of variance. Your bluffs aren't supposed to work "most of the time" to be good bluffs - getting picked off is part of the game that's supposed to happen sometimes.
As far as deciding to bluff when it's difficult to put villain on a range (with any good concept of frequency), I'd just go back to what I described above and make sure you bluff your weakest showdown value hands which work best as blockers.
Using something like PPT, Pokerjuice, or Omaha Ranger will give you a better idea of how often people can have missed draws here vs. the other parts of their range. I wish that I spent more time doing analysis like this. Don't be like me!
if you bluff with 67 there youre certainly overbluffing - not underbluffing if you check it.
7:30 - flat AsKd6c7c versus min raise SB vs CO, BB calls, board 3hAc2d5cKs, flop checks through you make a ⅔ pot semi bluff / protection bet on the turn and get called by the big blind, CO folds. Check river and face a ⅓ pot river bet, then fold.
I would think that a lot his straights would raise you on the turn, so just leaves his set combo’s and the occasional straight. I would think AQ67 would be a fold but AK67 would be a call, why did you fold the river here with top 2 pair?
26:39 BTN raise A59s6s, SB(short stack) calls BB squeezes. This hand will often flop something marginal, and given that the short stack will likely be very aggressive postflop, why is a fold to the preflop squeeze not prefered?
Good questions!
AK76 - I think his one card straights very likely wouldn't raise the turn (and not all nut straights would either). This is our biggest disagreement here since that assumption changes quite a bit. I don't think calling would be disastrous, but blocking 7c6c is bad for us since there are no other straight draws possible (and most gutters that call would contain a flush draw).
Over a small sample, my HUD is showing a 16% river bet stat for this player, which suggests it's likely he isn't much of a bluffer, so I still like the fold.
A9s6s5 - The hand isn't pretty, but the short stack being aggressive postflop is actually good for us rather than bad.
BB will have to face the short stack's shove quite often with our deep stack to act behind him. This will lead to him making some tight folds (allowing us to call closing the action with good odds anytime we flop something decent) and occasionally will lead to him shoving a marginal hand, attempting to iso the short stack, when we flop something big.
Hi Phil min 14:00 u 3bet 8844 and cbet flop check turn on A66s To mentioning that you dont have relevant blockers. Would you mind telling me what relevant blockers would be in this spot? We don't block clubs and stil have 2-4 nut outs which would make me want to bet this hand again. With a FD we prob have more outs but block the non made hands.
Good question and good point. I'm not sure why I discussed blockers on the turn, but there was no good reason to :)
I think this is a pretty good hand to bet again, perhaps one of the better ones. Thank you for pointing it out.
min 36 you defend T732s that means you defend 99% of your hands huhu? I would guess most ppl would not defend as wide, seems tough to realize equity with this hand.
I'm having trouble finding this hand. Can you double-check the timestamp or post the action?
9:30
You mention the hand being a little strong to x/r (bottom left with JJ52ss)
Is this after taking into account that he's pretty short?
I understand not wanting to x/r and then do anything when hes 100 deep but surely this is approaching the stack size where we can x/r and then just sigh call? The protection is pretty nice and we're quasi committed at that point I imagine.
If not, how much shorter do you think he needs to be?
17:00 9776ds btn vs CO
River: I don't know exactly how skhervoy's range is constructed here but it seems pretty likely he's rather hard pressed to show up with many straights given he cbet flop (in general, not just due to our specific holding) so if we decide KT+ is strong enough, shouldnt we be potting? I don't think we struggle to find too many bluffs here given how connected flop was and realistically all draws missed. You mention wanting to give him room to x/r.
It seems rather unlikely he'll attempt to rep the straight here (or that his frequency will be a function of your bet size since you're not really repping one either)
Seems like nuts vs air is a fairly good approximation here and we should pot river. Thoughts? Do you still prefer < pot or would you do pot it if you got to do it again?)
As an aside, on the occasions I show up with KK here I really struggle what with what to do.
On the one hand, I should be good, on the other hand what the hell can he call with besides the odd combo of Tens up? This makes me want to split our range into a smaller bet size with KK in the small sizing (but we probably raise flop quite frequently so maybe that's not enough combos which perhaps means we can add KT to the mix?) Thoughts on that vs one sizing?
31:27 Bottom Right (7432).
I really struggle with this turn spot. We x/c and the river comes a T and you say "bad river" (which I agree with) but really on these sort of textures, every river sucks short of a 3 or 4.
There isn't a single river in the deck that doesnt bring straights, a quarter of those also bring a flush, and many also bring higher 2p.
It feels like even the times it goes x/x on river we just lose to better 2p (or we lose to like 52 on a 6h for example) a ton of the time. Is there really no better way to play this than x/c x/c pray? (I understand that in theory its fine for some parts of our turn x/c range to fold almost every river.) It's not as though I've got a significantly better plan but it does sort of feel gross. We also don't have any rivers that we really love either. Even on 3s and 4s we can only really call down (admittedly we do it super happily) but it's not as if we can ever really get in a raise.
It just feels to me like we're x/c turn with what amounts to a glorified 4 out draw and I'd fold naked 56AK on the turn (which may actually do better because at least we make the nuts some of the time and rivering an A or K isn't much of a step down from 43).
Thoughts?
JJ52ss -
I think the fact that we're short kind've works against raising this hand. I understand what you mean, but we are going to have a really hard timing folding out better at this stack depth (which isn't true with deeper stacks).
Though we may be making a slightly +EV or breakeven call after we raise and get shoved on, I think that we're pprobably making a losing play by getting into that situation. We need some protection, sure, but I think that helping him get stacks in when we have 6 outs isn't worth it.
9776ds -
I agree with you that I'm unlikely to induce raises with my smaller sizing. That said, I do think he can get here with some straights (mostly A2), so I fear that potting won't allow me to bet my 2pr and sets as comfortably.
To be honest, I'm not entirely sure about this spot. Given the flop action, I'm even less likely than him to have straights here (and we're both unlikely in general) so perhaps I need to treat this river as much more of a blank than it feels.
His range to x/c turn after betting flop includes very few two pair+ hands, so I'm up against one pair on this river quite often for the size of the pot. I probably can bluff really profitably with any sizing in practice against most opponents,and that means I should probably be betting thinly for value (in theory) as well.
I'm leaning towards something like 1/2 pot with everything - value betting any Kings up or better, bluffing anything than can't beat a King? What do you think?
7432 -
Yeah I think that folding on the turn is a fine play (perhaps the best play). I had very few hands on lateski and in HU and 6max (you can see his stats on the other tables) he is betting flops and turns pretty wide. I was hoping for the overpair (or similar) bet bet check line along with some bluffs that give up, but in general dry bottom two is a really weak hand and I wouldn't feel bad about folding it anywhere.
I agree that AK65 is somewhat similar, though it can't win in the bet bet check scenarios without improving. If I had to pick one of the two hands, I would take 7432.
phil quick couple of questions:
Do you ever feel like a plastic bag
Drifting through the wind, wanting to start again?
Do you ever feel, feel so paper thin
Like a house of cards, one blow from caving in?
Do you ever feel already buried deep six feet under?
Screams but no one seems to hear a thing
Do you know that there's still a chance for you
'Cause there's a spark in you?
You just gotta ignite the light and let it shine
Just own the night like the 4th of July
'Cause, baby, you're a firework
Come on, show 'em what you're worth
Make 'em go, "Aah, aah, aah"
As you shoot across the sky-y-y
Baby, you're a firework
Come on, let your colours burst
Make 'em go, "Aah, aah, aah"
You're gonna leave 'em all in awe, awe, awe
You don't have to feel like a wasted space
You're original, cannot be replaced
If you only knew what the future holds
After a hurricane comes a rainbow
Maybe a reason why all the doors are closed
So you could open one that leads you to the perfect road
Like a lightning bolt, your heart will glow
And when it's time you'll know
You just gotta ignite the light and let it shine
Just own the night like the 4th of July
'Cause, baby, you're a firework
Come on, show 'em what you're worth
Make 'em go, "Aah, aah, aah"
As you shoot across the sky-y-y
Baby, you're a firework
Come on, let your colours burst
Make 'em go, "Aah, aah, aah"
You're gonna leave 'em all in awe, awe, awe
Boom, boom, boom
Even brighter than the moon, moon, moon
It's always been inside of you, you, you
And now it's time to let it through-ough-ough
'Cause, baby, you're a firework
Come on, show 'em what you're worth
Make 'em go, "Aah, aah, aah"
As you shoot across the sky-y-y
Baby, you're a firework
Come on, let your colours burst
Make 'em go, "Aah, aah, aah"
You're gonna leave 'em all in awe, awe, awe
Boom, boom, boom
Even brighter than the moon, moon, moon
Boom, boom, boom
Even brighter than the moon, moon, moon
(bottom left 22:20) If OOP plays a bet strategy with sets to protect against straight draws OTF (and xc turn), shouldn't you be more inclined to check turn when you hold two pair ? The river pairing frequency decreases on 10.5% when that's the case. When you decide to bet turn at SPR, what sizing do you think fits well your range ?
Thank you.
Good questions. Holding two pair with my flush means I'm giving him less free equity with his sets, but if we thought his range was very set heavy we should bet to push our huge equity advantage. In practice, we'll rarely be able to put him on a very set-heavy range, so checking back with my hand seems like the clear play.
My value range on this board will have him drawing very slim (and will almost always be betting river) so we don't have to size too large at this SPR. This makes it more of a 1-0 game than most PLO spots. I would go with half pot on the turn and then shove river for ~half pot.
What are yours reasoning for cbetting the flop? (do you have any reads/stats for doing so)
If we cbet and get raised, we are in a though spot: If we get it in we are behind or flipping at best imo, and if we call let's say a pot size c/r there is about one psb left ott and hearts are the only cards we comfortaly can call a shove with, as our range is kind of face up.
Thx in advance
Great video as always!
Thanks zuzupet!
I think that we can bet and get all-in on this flop comfortably with our hand. Yes, we will be roughly flipping when we get it in, but our opponent can bluff-raise and fold.
More importantly, what usually will happen is that he will call with hands that we are very large favorites against, including flush draws that we can win a big pot against when we both hit. This is one of the stronger hands we have in this spot, so checking it would either leave us not betting nearly often enough or it will mean we are only betting bluffs and absolute monsters (which ends up being mostly bluffs).
Okay makes sense, as I not used to play those stakes ;)
I ran a sim in Pokerjuice, just to get a idea of much equity we have vs. a get it in ranges, it seems like we are not flipping, when we get it in?
Correct me if you think, I am off of some ranges preflop or on the flop please.
If we are behind getting it in, does not nessary, mean that shoving over a raise is ÉV, as he this player could be bluff-raising a lot as you already pointed out.
Thx.in advance
*is -EV
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