Nice video!
at 35:30 top left we have A997 with 2 hearts on SB and board is K98r Jh,
Interesting hand. These are my thoughts.If we are betting turn with straights and x/cing with sets then our river range is pretty obvius. That is why is as you said hard to get value on river.
First I was thinking lower sizing on the river since we have little bluffs.
Now I am thinking that we would like to bet some sets on the turn to solve this face-up range. And if we want to do that, we have good hand to do it with, since we have Set+NFD. Others can be KKTx or 99Tx, not sure which are better, but seems to me to have NFD is kind a better. With Set+NFD we have 40-43% equity against straight on the Turn which is not that bad. I guess some harder work should be done here. We lose some when he has straight but we gain when he has KJTx , maybe 2pair with dominated flush draw and similliar hands. We also gain protection against some OESD that might not call Turn. Given that you are 200BB deep, he might call Flop CR lightly hoping for implied odds.
And also we gain some deception on rivers and balance our range, which is kind a reason I am thinking about betting OTT in the first place.
Not sure how to approach these spots deep OOP. Do we have to sacrifice a little for range balance (bet "good" sets on the turn), or is it enough to play sets check call, and nut straights lets say we bet half of the time and check half of the time. And if we bet OTT, and river pairs, we bluff catch with blockers ( we never have boats unless its straight+set).
And you said, if we are playing like you did in the video, we have to turn some sets into a bluff on the river to balance out.
I'm really curious what would Phil say about this spot.... I'd guess fold PRE :)
Amazing vid. Please make more 6max 500 zoom videos. What are your thoughts on z500 current regs and how little 3bets is going around ? Is this also happening in the higher stakes that you play like 10/20 and 25/50?
Hi guys, thanks for the warm welcome!
@ porshy; This is why I love deepstack poker, its so damn complicated...
I like your analysis and Think that my hand should qualify as a bet here to balance our betting range. Another feature that balances everything out quite nicely is to c/c some nut straights as well and bomb pairing rivers. This way you have your bluffs both ways (although admittedly, bluffing to mainly fold out a chop). By c/c some nut straights on turn you give villain a much tougher river bluff as well in future. The most obvious of these straights are the one that have the back-up of a FD I guess.
6:00 Leading strategy is interesting...unless you're flatting super wide from SB you're going to have nut flush >2/3 of time. If your range is nuts/nut blocker, are villains incentivized to have any flop calling range? I don't see why they would even call flop with KK.
The idea to lead comes from the fact that we are up against multiple opponents, this makes it pretty unlikely that players will try and bet a lower flush on the flop. Therefore, having the A in our hand is massive, either as a flush or as a blocker. To protect your call range you could definitly make arguments for slowplaying. So bring it to the river and raise there. However, I expect very litlle betting to be done by villains on the flop, so in general I choose to lead here quite often vs this many opponents.
Depending on positions, villains should be calling here some for sure. Sets obviously have ok equity vs my range on the flop. HJ en CO should def call on flop with flushes as well to not only have sets in their continuing range. depending on how their hand is constructed they can call a turn and river as well.
Thanks for response, I'm trying to understand this. If your leading range is nuts/nut blocker, you're going to have a roughly 2/1 value/bluff ratio in this spot. I assume with this range your plan is to barrel 100% of non-board pairing turns/rivers.
From villain perspective, with a flush they will be forced to fold either turn or river. With a set, board will only pair turn ~16% of time. They don't have direct odds to call either flop/turn bets, and I assume no implied odds since it will be correct for you to xf on a board pair.
Given that, why is it correct for villains to have any flop call range?
in your estimation of 2/1 value/bluff (which I can agree on, I think from SB it might be even more value heavy) villains will be good 1/3rd of the time. So vs my bluffing part of range they will be miles ahead with flushes and sets. Vs the 2/3 part of hero's range; Sets have equity vs my nut flushes as well. So it makes sense to call down with some flushes to turn, some to river, and some to showdown as well even on non pairing boards. Next to this villains want to be calling top/middle set to river and most likely fold it there. This range allows villains to bluff on any street when the board pairs (with their low flushes) and go for value with their sets. which obv puts hero in some nasty spots.
Not calling anything from villains perspectives would widen the possible bluffing door tremendously since no one will continue with anything besides the nutblocker.
If you hold the bare Kh (and board was say QhJh4h instead) one of the three villains will have either nuts or nut blocker ~45% of the time so I'm not sure they need to defend anything else vs a lead.
What would your prefered line be? In any case when you will c/raise oop you will rep same range, namely nuts or lone A I think? Due to this fact i see 2 valid options; lead (benefit of imediate value/FE) or bring hand to river and raise there (benefit of protection of caling range).
When flop gets checked through it has both an advantage as well as disadvantage for our range. The good thing is that vs most opponents we could use the Kh here as a much more relevant blocker/value hand now as well. The disadvantage obv is that our hand gives away free equity/ give up bluff potential.
To answer question what line is optimal it stronly depends whether you face opponents that are likely to bet or not. I would take passive line on flop with the Ah when there is a lot of betting done and take betting lead when I dont expect a ton of betting to be done by worse.
How does your default play look like in this specific spot (being oop vs multiple opponents)?
I'd check range because I'm over-weighted to nuts and don't think villains need to defend anything vs a lead. But if people are calling flops / turns like happened here, then clearly your play is better vs the population.
Surely when your preflop range is so much more weighted to the Nut flush than the blocker in this spot; it becomes poor to bet. I'm sure you could argue for betting sometimes and checking sometimes, but this hand should qualify as a check as you block flushes with 3 hearts in your hand, so you're going to make more money catching blocker bluffs rather than getting flushes to call down (which it seems they shouldn't really do) anyway. Obviously this way you allow your range to check raise some turns/rivers as well. You also get more bets in against sets if anyone chooses to bet flop with them, which you can check raise.
The A997 nut hearts hand, is it really that clear that Q10 checks back river in this spot as played?? It seems like you have very few flushes on the river having flatted the SB and played this line, and even less if you lead the river when you do have this hand (or bet it on the turn sometimes). Seems to me like you need to use this hand to protect your sets and 107 from river bets.
I guess without knowing the exact number of how many bare aces vs nut flushes I have in this spot this discussion is hard to close in a satisfying way. I do like your point about hero having three hearts in his hand and since we (at least I...) do want to have both a checking line as well as a betting line this one definity qualifies as a good candidate to check.
I still believe that vs three opponents there is not a lot of betting to be done by any of them seeing the hand that we have. If checking to check raise is your default play than still you need to incorporate other hands in that range than the Ah. On the flop thats not necessary, but when its getting checked through on flop than on turn you will have to since otherwise you would play the same range that I choose to play my leads with on the flop. Which ones would this be? I have some ideas about it but curious how you would construct that range too.
Next to this theoretic part of the discussion I believe that people tend to make more mistakes (by calling too much) than by bet/calling too much in this spot.
About the a997, whether or not villain should be betting his straight in this spot depends on the fact how light he bet/calls flop I guess. Seeing the action on former streets it might be hard for him to have enough bluffs in his range.
For our own range (not so sure how many 7T combo's Ill have, I think its mainly sets and turned FD's with a gutter or something) I agree that there should be flushes in the check range on the river. I rather pick some lower ones for this though.
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Welcome!!
Nice video!
99% #TeamHolland
sick thanks for the video your the man
Nice video!
at 35:30 top left we have A997 with 2 hearts on SB and board is K98r Jh,
Interesting hand. These are my thoughts.If we are betting turn with straights and x/cing with sets then our river range is pretty obvius. That is why is as you said hard to get value on river.
First I was thinking lower sizing on the river since we have little bluffs.
Now I am thinking that we would like to bet some sets on the turn to solve this face-up range. And if we want to do that, we have good hand to do it with, since we have Set+NFD. Others can be KKTx or 99Tx, not sure which are better, but seems to me to have NFD is kind a better. With Set+NFD we have 40-43% equity against straight on the Turn which is not that bad. I guess some harder work should be done here. We lose some when he has straight but we gain when he has KJTx , maybe 2pair with dominated flush draw and similliar hands. We also gain protection against some OESD that might not call Turn. Given that you are 200BB deep, he might call Flop CR lightly hoping for implied odds.
And also we gain some deception on rivers and balance our range, which is kind a reason I am thinking about betting OTT in the first place.
Not sure how to approach these spots deep OOP. Do we have to sacrifice a little for range balance (bet "good" sets on the turn), or is it enough to play sets check call, and nut straights lets say we bet half of the time and check half of the time. And if we bet OTT, and river pairs, we bluff catch with blockers ( we never have boats unless its straight+set).
And you said, if we are playing like you did in the video, we have to turn some sets into a bluff on the river to balance out.
I'm really curious what would Phil say about this spot.... I'd guess fold PRE :)
Amazing vid. Please make more 6max 500 zoom videos. What are your thoughts on z500 current regs and how little 3bets is going around ? Is this also happening in the higher stakes that you play like 10/20 and 25/50?
Welcome buddy!
Hi guys, thanks for the warm welcome!
@ porshy; This is why I love deepstack poker, its so damn complicated...
I like your analysis and Think that my hand should qualify as a bet here to balance our betting range. Another feature that balances everything out quite nicely is to c/c some nut straights as well and bomb pairing rivers. This way you have your bluffs both ways (although admittedly, bluffing to mainly fold out a chop). By c/c some nut straights on turn you give villain a much tougher river bluff as well in future. The most obvious of these straights are the one that have the back-up of a FD I guess.
You don't like soft, but more balaced than most. GL
Loved the video. Nice to have you on the team.
6:00 Leading strategy is interesting...unless you're flatting super wide from SB you're going to have nut flush >2/3 of time. If your range is nuts/nut blocker, are villains incentivized to have any flop calling range? I don't see why they would even call flop with KK.
The legend himself!!!!
Choparno,
The idea to lead comes from the fact that we are up against multiple opponents, this makes it pretty unlikely that players will try and bet a lower flush on the flop. Therefore, having the A in our hand is massive, either as a flush or as a blocker. To protect your call range you could definitly make arguments for slowplaying. So bring it to the river and raise there. However, I expect very litlle betting to be done by villains on the flop, so in general I choose to lead here quite often vs this many opponents.
Depending on positions, villains should be calling here some for sure. Sets obviously have ok equity vs my range on the flop. HJ en CO should def call on flop with flushes as well to not only have sets in their continuing range. depending on how their hand is constructed they can call a turn and river as well.
Thanks for response, I'm trying to understand this. If your leading range is nuts/nut blocker, you're going to have a roughly 2/1 value/bluff ratio in this spot. I assume with this range your plan is to barrel 100% of non-board pairing turns/rivers.
From villain perspective, with a flush they will be forced to fold either turn or river. With a set, board will only pair turn ~16% of time. They don't have direct odds to call either flop/turn bets, and I assume no implied odds since it will be correct for you to xf on a board pair.
Given that, why is it correct for villains to have any flop call range?
in your estimation of 2/1 value/bluff (which I can agree on, I think from SB it might be even more value heavy) villains will be good 1/3rd of the time. So vs my bluffing part of range they will be miles ahead with flushes and sets. Vs the 2/3 part of hero's range; Sets have equity vs my nut flushes as well. So it makes sense to call down with some flushes to turn, some to river, and some to showdown as well even on non pairing boards. Next to this villains want to be calling top/middle set to river and most likely fold it there. This range allows villains to bluff on any street when the board pairs (with their low flushes) and go for value with their sets. which obv puts hero in some nasty spots.
Not calling anything from villains perspectives would widen the possible bluffing door tremendously since no one will continue with anything besides the nutblocker.
If you hold the bare Kh (and board was say QhJh4h instead) one of the three villains will have either nuts or nut blocker ~45% of the time so I'm not sure they need to defend anything else vs a lead.
What would your prefered line be? In any case when you will c/raise oop you will rep same range, namely nuts or lone A I think? Due to this fact i see 2 valid options; lead (benefit of imediate value/FE) or bring hand to river and raise there (benefit of protection of caling range).
When flop gets checked through it has both an advantage as well as disadvantage for our range. The good thing is that vs most opponents we could use the Kh here as a much more relevant blocker/value hand now as well. The disadvantage obv is that our hand gives away free equity/ give up bluff potential.
To answer question what line is optimal it stronly depends whether you face opponents that are likely to bet or not. I would take passive line on flop with the Ah when there is a lot of betting done and take betting lead when I dont expect a ton of betting to be done by worse.
How does your default play look like in this specific spot (being oop vs multiple opponents)?
I'd check range because I'm over-weighted to nuts and don't think villains need to defend anything vs a lead. But if people are calling flops / turns like happened here, then clearly your play is better vs the population.
Surely when your preflop range is so much more weighted to the Nut flush than the blocker in this spot; it becomes poor to bet. I'm sure you could argue for betting sometimes and checking sometimes, but this hand should qualify as a check as you block flushes with 3 hearts in your hand, so you're going to make more money catching blocker bluffs rather than getting flushes to call down (which it seems they shouldn't really do) anyway. Obviously this way you allow your range to check raise some turns/rivers as well. You also get more bets in against sets if anyone chooses to bet flop with them, which you can check raise.
The A997 nut hearts hand, is it really that clear that Q10 checks back river in this spot as played?? It seems like you have very few flushes on the river having flatted the SB and played this line, and even less if you lead the river when you do have this hand (or bet it on the turn sometimes). Seems to me like you need to use this hand to protect your sets and 107 from river bets.
I guess without knowing the exact number of how many bare aces vs nut flushes I have in this spot this discussion is hard to close in a satisfying way. I do like your point about hero having three hearts in his hand and since we (at least I...) do want to have both a checking line as well as a betting line this one definity qualifies as a good candidate to check.
I still believe that vs three opponents there is not a lot of betting to be done by any of them seeing the hand that we have. If checking to check raise is your default play than still you need to incorporate other hands in that range than the Ah. On the flop thats not necessary, but when its getting checked through on flop than on turn you will have to since otherwise you would play the same range that I choose to play my leads with on the flop. Which ones would this be? I have some ideas about it but curious how you would construct that range too.
Next to this theoretic part of the discussion I believe that people tend to make more mistakes (by calling too much) than by bet/calling too much in this spot.
About the a997, whether or not villain should be betting his straight in this spot depends on the fact how light he bet/calls flop I guess. Seeing the action on former streets it might be hard for him to have enough bluffs in his range.
For our own range (not so sure how many 7T combo's Ill have, I think its mainly sets and turned FD's with a gutter or something) I agree that there should be flushes in the check range on the river. I rather pick some lower ones for this though.
There`s a punch of hardcore stuff in this video. gg
This is a gift from the PLO gods
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