At 45:22, you call his flop/turn c bets and check-jam the river. I wouldn't expect KQ to be in his value range here, and also think AQ doesn't always play like this; either way, these combos are discounted because of your blocker. I would expect him to have sets and missed flush draws, maybe Q7s or 56s if he opens them from CO. Do you think going for three streets with AQ and KQ is standard in villains spot? What does the blue label mean?
Also, I enjoy the live play videos, but I believe I learn more from HH reviews or session reviews where you can pause the video and go more in depth.
Yeah can you go into a bit more detail on that Q9 river shove? At first glance it seems quite bad to me cause I feel like there's no way you're ahead of 50% of his calling range there.
EluSiVeMark10 years, 7 months agoI think AQ+ is a 3barrel for value on a runout like this. KQ is close for 2 or 3 streets. AQ is a 3barrel for value because of all the draws present and they all bricked. So we want to bluff more and balance that by betting a bit thinner for value.
Blue means he is defending the BB vs a button open around 55% of the time.
Thanks for the reply. In villains shoes on that runout my own strategy would be to bet a polarized river value range of 2pr+ and 4combos of 56 straight for somewhere around 2x pot. Do you think this is a good spot for an overbet or do you think that because we'll have so many strong one pair hands that we can't bet for 2x pot it's better to go for a smaller sizing and bet those hands for value as well?
EluSiVeMark10 years, 7 months agoI think the turn might be a better spot to implement an overbettingrange. Ott we all the draws and all the nutty hands in our range.
I don't see a reason why overbetting the river would be bad though. As long as you balance your range.
IamYoPrincess10 years, 7 months agonice video thank you. Im not sure about few things tho. in some spots i saw you defending really weird hands , like A4o bb vs small utg raise, or T9o same (both about 21:20, obv you said w A4o that vill is not aggro and u can realise some more eq, but still it's just bad a4o, his range is usually really tight and we run into troubles so often). why do u think it is that epic victory w these hands? or bb/co w like k2o vs minraise. why you dont wanna do "something" w Q9o bb/btn on 756T OTT, 28:15? also u are wondering BB(40:47 magorko,that QQ vs str8 flush hand) 3bets you vs BTN with TQs, how it can be that bad?so why not? tbh i prefer that more than ur 3b like 140 deep bb/sb vs high fold 3bettor but with total trash J5o.. gl anyways, im lookin fwd for more vids, u might consider some video about ranges/theory/redline/defending bb/sb or whatever that important:)
I dont think those A4o and K3o preflopcalls show much profit either. on the other hand are hands like Q6s or K2s very easy defends vs a 30% ish openrange (mostly BBvsCO or vs wide MP openers).
The Q9o OTT is one of the weakest hands in our range. to build a c/r range we have way better hands like J8/Q8 etc.
A4 vs 20% has 42% equity, 9To has 33% but has better playabilty.
We are getting 3,5 to 1 vs a minraise. So we need a little bit less than 25% equity. The fact that we are out of position let us realise a bit less of our equity. But i cannot imagine that we arent realising like 70% of our equity with T9 and 54% with A4o.
Q9o is around the bottom of our range on that turn so i dont see a reason to 'want to do something' with a gutter that is very obvious when we hit.
I dont think its that bad in a vacuum, 3betting QTs, but i think if he always 3bets his suited broadways that his callingrange becomes quite weak.
I have done a pretty extensive CREV analysis of the hand where you were in the SB Vs BB with AcKs, Flop; Td8h2d. You said you dont like anything; cbet, c/f, or c/c so you would rather take the more aggressive route.
I was wondering if you would be interested in checking my CREV files. I have done analysis for both cbet 66% pot and c/c, including different possible turns and river cards. Maybe I could send you both files, if you are interested in taking a look. Hopefully I havent made any major errors.
My conclusion, simply put; is that Cbetting is very close to breakeven, and is slightly +EV dependant on how much villain calls down when we hit TP+, and how much villain barrells when we check turn. whereas c/c turns into around a -1 or -2bb play, pretty much no matter the villains strategy, It seems its just very hard for us to turn a profit by c/c this flop.
I felt like there had to be something wrong with c/c being this -EV, so I checked over my CREV tree, and I found I had actually made an ' error' in one part of the check/call tree.
And it turns out c/c is essentially b/e, with an EV of approximately -0.5bb.
However it still seems that Cbetting the flop is the way to go.
Pretty cool that you did such an extensive analysis. Quite interesting and good to know that cbetting is slightly better even without a backdoor flushdraw.
I would be interested seeing the files but i havent used CREV yet. So first things first :) i need to get into CREV anytime soon.
Im glad that you enjoy my videos. As always, if you have any questions feel free to ask them!
nice video, at 22' on table 3 you say that you have better hands to c/r on T52cc with your ac 4o. what hands for example ? i know that our value check raising range is narrow (22/55/tt). (sorry for my bad english)
Your english looks fine! We can throw in some 34s 46s 67s with bdflushdraw. Hands like that are decent candidates to x/r. A4o has some showdownvalue (allthough not a lot vs UTG).
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More of the same,liveplay zoom!!
"decent runout for him" haha so sick
like these videos a lot! Is it possible to see u playing 1k zoom some point?x)
On the QQ vs QThh hand, what is your reasoning for checking back the turn? Would shipping it be bad? Great vid!
can u give me a time stamp on that?
Great vid.....would like to see one covering your marked hands
next 1 in line is a hh review.
Pretty sure he means 40:47 where villain bunked the SF on river
At 45:22, you call his flop/turn c bets and check-jam the river. I wouldn't expect KQ to be in his value range here, and also think AQ doesn't always play like this; either way, these combos are discounted because of your blocker. I would expect him to have sets and missed flush draws, maybe Q7s or 56s if he opens them from CO. Do you think going for three streets with AQ and KQ is standard in villains spot? What does the blue label mean?
Also, I enjoy the live play videos, but I believe I learn more from HH reviews or session reviews where you can pause the video and go more in depth.
Thanks Mark!
Yeah can you go into a bit more detail on that Q9 river shove? At first glance it seems quite bad to me cause I feel like there's no way you're ahead of 50% of his calling range there.
AQ is a 3barrel for value because of all the draws present and they all bricked. So we want to bluff more and balance that by betting a bit thinner for value.
Blue means he is defending the BB vs a button open around 55% of the time.
You are welcome Mason
doncamatic,
I think it's a close spot. If he herocalls occassinaly with AQ,KQ,KK,AA then it is a +ev jam. If he doesn't then calling is better.
If i look back at it i think calling is better. This is mainly because of his polarizing betsizing. 125 in 137.
Thanks for the reply. In villains shoes on that runout my own strategy would be to bet a polarized river value range of 2pr+ and 4combos of 56 straight for somewhere around 2x pot. Do you think this is a good spot for an overbet or do you think that because we'll have so many strong one pair hands that we can't bet for 2x pot it's better to go for a smaller sizing and bet those hands for value as well?
I don't see a reason why overbetting the river would be bad though. As long as you balance your range.
why you dont wanna do "something" w Q9o bb/btn on 756T OTT, 28:15?
also u are wondering BB(40:47 magorko,that QQ vs str8 flush hand) 3bets you vs BTN with TQs, how it can be that bad?so why not? tbh i prefer that more than ur 3b like 140 deep bb/sb vs high fold 3bettor but with total trash J5o.. gl anyways, im lookin fwd for more vids, u might consider some video about ranges/theory/redline/defending bb/sb or whatever that important:)
I dont think those A4o and K3o preflopcalls show much profit either. on the other hand are hands like Q6s or K2s very easy defends vs a 30% ish openrange (mostly BBvsCO or vs wide MP openers).
The Q9o OTT is one of the weakest hands in our range. to build a c/r range we have way better hands like J8/Q8 etc.
Hello Princess,
A4 vs 20% has 42% equity, 9To has 33% but has better playabilty.
We are getting 3,5 to 1 vs a minraise. So we need a little bit less than 25% equity.
The fact that we are out of position let us realise a bit less of our equity. But i cannot imagine that we arent realising like 70% of our equity with T9 and 54% with A4o.
Q9o is around the bottom of our range on that turn so i dont see a reason to 'want to do something' with a gutter that is very obvious when we hit.
I dont think its that bad in a vacuum, 3betting QTs, but i think if he always 3bets his suited broadways that his callingrange becomes quite weak.
Are u still having trouble with HUD when playing zoom Mark? Mine is not even popping up.
Have updated it and everything is just like it was before it stopped working, hand history in english,run as admin etc.
You can try reinstalling stars and HEM2. Else contact hem support. They should be able to help you.
I have done a pretty extensive CREV analysis of the hand where you were in the SB Vs BB with AcKs, Flop; Td8h2d. You said you dont like anything; cbet, c/f, or c/c so you would rather take the more aggressive route.
I was wondering if you would be interested in checking my CREV files. I have done analysis for both cbet 66% pot and c/c, including different possible turns and river cards. Maybe I could send you both files, if you are interested in taking a look. Hopefully I havent made any major errors.
My conclusion, simply put; is that Cbetting is very close to breakeven, and is slightly +EV dependant on how much villain calls down when we hit TP+, and how much villain barrells when we check turn. whereas c/c turns into around a -1 or -2bb play, pretty much no matter the villains strategy, It seems its just very hard for us to turn a profit by c/c this flop.
Nice video, as always by the way :)
I felt like there had to be something wrong with c/c being this -EV, so I checked over my CREV tree, and I found I had actually made an ' error' in one part of the check/call tree.
And it turns out c/c is essentially b/e, with an EV of approximately -0.5bb.
However it still seems that Cbetting the flop is the way to go.
Pretty cool that you did such an extensive analysis. Quite interesting and good to know that cbetting is slightly better even without a backdoor flushdraw.
I would be interested seeing the files but i havent used CREV yet. So first things first :) i need to get into CREV anytime soon.
Im glad that you enjoy my videos. As always, if you have any questions feel free to ask them!
Cheers!
teach me how can I hit a set every flop like you did pls :-)
Its not always like this man. You will have your days where you whiff every flop.
your videos motivate me to
a) defend the BB wider and
b) get this WWSF up!
:-)
I think some marked hands would be cool!
Nice video.
Would think a review of some specific hands next time would be good as well
nice video, at 22' on table 3 you say that you have better hands to c/r on T52cc with your ac 4o. what hands for example ? i know that our value check raising range is narrow (22/55/tt). (sorry for my bad english)
Your english looks fine!
We can throw in some 34s 46s 67s with bdflushdraw. Hands like that are decent candidates to x/r. A4o has some showdownvalue (allthough not a lot vs UTG).
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