3 Table $10/$20 Deep Ante 6-Max NLHE

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3 Table $10/$20 Deep Ante 6-Max NLHE

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Sauce123

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3 Table $10/$20 Deep Ante 6-Max NLHE

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Sauce123

POSTED Feb 06, 2015

Ben jumps in to the reg infested waters of the $10/$20 deep ante games and shares his thoughts as he plays.

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FaceMyAlterEgo 10 years, 1 month ago

Hey Ben, great Video, as always!

Around min 30, when we have 97o in the bb vs the Bu and overbet probe JT8r Ab, and the river brings the K, I was very surprised to see you valuebet river. While I agree that bu will not have too many Qx, I thought that other then Q8 which you mentioned, also QT would check alot on the flop, which you seem to disagree with. The point i'm curious about is that I thought that both KQ and AQ might check sometimes, both for boardcoverage and because both are hands have next to their 8 nutouts some SD value and 6 pair outs that are not nutted at all but dominate alot of BBs turn bluffing range vs a flop check.
Do you think that betting these high equity hands is just so valuable that checking them at any significant frequency is a mistake? Also do you not think that, even if checking is a mistake, your opponent might try to play a strategy that is a bit more passive and focusses on protecting his ranges more when facing a very tough and tricky opponent such as you?

Sauce123 10 years, 1 month ago

FMAE,

I don't really have a strong opinion about checking behind hands with a lot of nut potential. I think my river bet does much better against strategies which never or rarely check back QJ, KQ, QT, QQ etc. 4ST runouts to the Q/K are very rare here, so I don't think it's obviously a mistake for villain to arrive at these runouts with a range low in 1cd straights.

BIGfloppa 10 years, 1 month ago

Nice vid. Love the deep ante format. Pity effective stacks aren't deeper.

At 6:30 you overbet 35hh on 764hhhAd. What bluffs might you overbet in this spot?

Sauce123 10 years, 1 month ago

In Btn vs BB situations we can get more out of line here with overbetting non nut hearts because BB has a lot of hands like J7o or Qh9c in his own range. I'd sometimes overbet bluff any 9h-Kh combo, and occasionally some gutters/OEs.

I wouldn't overbet too often in this spot though, in general we want to target the weak 1cd heart hands and/or flopped pairs, and we still get value betting smaller for value because a lot of flushes wait till the turn to XR.

Rubiniho 10 years, 1 month ago

Nice video, as usual!

Ac7h @ 9:30 How do you balance the river range after bluffing with the A blocker on the turn? What hands are you looking to give up otr? And which ones would you use as bluffs when the four flush gets there?

Sauce123 10 years, 1 month ago

Rubinho,

On the river we'll want to value bet 2PR+ against almost all opponents, and often KT+ on brick rivers supposing villain XR fairly often on earlier streets. We'll be bluffing with a variety of unpaired hands Ax through 9x, including stuff like QJo, 98o, etc. We'll also X behind flop some percent with these hand classes. In general, the Ac7x combo is bad to triple barrel bluff because Axcc or A+pair is a large part of villain's XC XC XF range.

When the 4FL arrives we can bluff with hands like A4o, A5o, and Qxs/XYs that turned a gutter and decided to cb. We can also consider triple barreling QJo through T9o against some opponents some %.

JohnnyMcCash 10 years, 1 month ago

Ben, your reply to Rubinho is very confusing. I think you may have remembered the board incorrectly, unless I am missunderstanding your post. In A7 hand the board was 23Q6, so I'm not sure how you can be value betting KT+ or bluffing QJ? Apologies if I'm being dumb.

Juan Copani 10 years, 1 month ago

Hey Ben, thanks for this video..

Im intrested on this hand too. Personally i would tend to bluff the river with the Ac blocker, but its true what you say that a big part of his xc xc xf range are hands with Ac. But if i dont use the Ac, ill be affraid to get rebluffed by any Ac.

Could be this a good reason to not overbet the turn, and wait to the river for make the overbet with this bluff ?

Sauce123 10 years, 1 month ago

Juan,

I wouldn't worry too much about the Ac. Villain's XR bluffing region is much smaller than his XF or XC region, so any hand that blocks both XR and XF regions is likely not good to bluff with since the XF happens so much more often.

DonoDrapero 10 years, 1 month ago

My NL game is rusty, couple of questions for you:

9:00 why is Ac7 a bet here, what does it accomplish? (similar question for A2o at 27:40). Is it that when you cbet and get an A turn you still want to have a decent amount of Aces in your range?
11:50 JdT seems like one of the best hands to bluff xR here, is it not?
20:10 BB is really aggro, but he's not 3betting more than 16%. I thought less than 16% is definitely not on the aggro side

Sauce123 10 years, 1 month ago

DD,

@9, We want to sometimes bluff with flop with a hand containing an A in it. Protection is fairly effective on this board as well, and it's a good board for IP, so aggression is fine.
@11:50: We shouldn't be XR bluffing here particularly often, our range isn't in good shape. All of the hands in our folding region can possibly be used for a XR, but I think JdTx has fairly nutty equity when called and not terrible blockers, though Qdx is of course better.
@20:10: I don't really know what's aggro or not aggro, I'm just trying to figure out how to call the button. I think 16% is too low to call J6hh unless the guy is kind of bad post, it's closer to 20.

DonoDrapero 10 years, 1 month ago

I really appreciate your responses, I think it's insanely valuable that we get to ask questions to a player of your caliber. Thanks Ben.

FIVEbetbLUFF 10 years ago

Ben at 11:50, if u dont c/r here, since board isn't great for overall range, do you ever c/c with Jhi? i tend to struggle with this spot because if we miss its hard to win the pot unless he gives up river and has hand worse then Jhi.

pacmang 10 years, 1 month ago

Thanks Ben really enjoying your videos. The ante game videos are particularly useful for me. Please keep these coming!

Rapha Nogueira 10 years, 1 month ago

Terrific video Ben.

11:17 You decided to float (as CREV recommend :p) JdTx on Kd8x3d against ac1dd. From your sample (that isn't big) his flop cbet frequency is 64% and his turn cbet frequency is 45%. Against this type of barreling strategy (specially on K high boards) are you x/c any bdsd bdfd two overs to the 8 ? Do you have any adjustment plan to don't get too carried away floating hands that may be too weak on a good portion of turns ?

I hope someone has enough heart to play you on HU NLHE again and we have more content here.

Thanks a lot.

Sauce123 10 years, 1 month ago

Good question Raphael.

Ac1d's play seems to favor the CB/X/Call line more than most other regulars, which I think is a good thing. We saw this on the paired A hi board, where he checked behind AJ on something like AQ3r3x, vs btn vs BB. This supports the idea that he's cbetting a fairly strong 64%, then polarizing further on his turn 45%, while leaving some TPish type hands in his CB/X range to bluffcatch rivers or value bet when checked to.

JdTx is going to end up being J hi quite often on rivers, and the times it remains J hi I'm going to fire a +EV bluff with it after turn X/X. Acid's strategy of calling river more often will still usually give me a +EV river bluff, but the combination of the flop call, followed by the lowered EV on the river bluff, might not sum to a +EV flop float. I think against a good player like Acid I should generally keep my flop floating frequency fairly in line, especially when I'm in the big blind with a loose calling range. After seeing his play throughout the entirety of the video, I'd say my float is likely -EV, or very near neutral EV, and that Acid's SRP play is quite nice against a player on the floaty side like me.

You can model the relationship between IP's CB/X/Call frequency versus barrel frequency to look at how it effects the EV of floats. For example, suppose he cb full pot, and db turn 2/3 for full pot, but when he gives up he always folds to a riverbet. In this case, JT is basically neutral EV, supposing it's indifferent on the turn cards that improve it and it's barreled, and the IP player's cumulative "continue" (i.e., whether he barrels or calls) is 2/3. But if we split the continue frequency down to 1/3 barrel, and add a 1/3 river call, things quickly get worse for OOP's JT. Suppose (for simplicity) we bluff river for pot when turn goes X/X. Also, let's suppose we improve 25% of the time and don't have to bluff, and our EV is full pot. Now, our EV is 1/3(he bets and we lose one PSB)+2/3(.25 we improve and win one PSB)+2/3(.75 we bet river)(2/3 he folds)+2/3(.75 we bet river)(1/3 he calls we lose 2 PSB), summing to -.33+.1675+.34-.33, or -.15 PSB on our flop call, given the same continue frequency for villain. Though this toy model doesn't delve into specifics, I think it adds some clarity to the idea that villain's CB/X/Call frequency varies negatively with the EV of floating flop for OOP.

I should add that CB/X/Call frequency for IP varies positively with the EV of calling medium strength hands like weak pairs for OOP, so it isn't like Acid's line is the most important aspect of IP play.

bang_bang 10 years, 1 month ago

31min: you said it's easy check call on turn with K6. Would you say the same for raised pot preflop? I think that we don't have enough equity for call.

shibulon 10 years ago

Hey ben at 34 minutes Acid checks back AJ on the turn on AQ44. Do you think he chose this combination because he blocks some of your gutshots? Should he be more likely to barrell with A6 for example?

reshove 10 years ago

loved the video-

22:20 "these 3 and 4 handed games are fun"
lol!

Can you give a brief explanation why theres more incentive for the raise SB vs BB in the non antes format vs the limp SB vs BB in the antes format?

33:33 you float J8hh on AQ2r1h and mention we need to make sure to add more floats on the non coordinated dry boards like this than on the coordinated wet ones. is this bc alot of hands that were continuing with on the wet boards will be somewhat obvious whereas on the dry boards if we arent careful about adding more seemingly unnatural hands to float we will be folding too much?

Thanks boss

Sauce123 10 years ago

In the antes format we get much better pot odds on anything we do, so we have to play a lot looser. It seems like limping is better with antes because often we're getting 5:1 on a limp, so if we deny our opponent the ability to raise 70+% of the time, we can probably play a lot of hands profitably for a limp.

@33:33, We can float more weak hands because the EV of calling our stronger hands like TP is much higher than on a board like 973ss. Villain's barrel frequency falls and play gets more passive, so we can showdown more easily and occasionally make the backdoor nuts or bluff river after X/X. Don't get me wrong though, this hand is probably a neutral EV X/C or very close to it, and could be slightly -EV.

reshove 10 years ago

interesting.

what do you mean when you say if we deny our opponent the ability to raise 70%+? do you mean we limp/call or limp/raise enough of the time facing a raise after we limp SB then we should be fine limping?

and on a board like 973ss if we xc J9 for instance, our EV is much less than if we xc AJ on A72, i get that, so that means that we should be more inclined to check float on the dry board instead of the wet board bc we will be barreled less often (and thus get to showdown or pick up a profitable bluff spot on river after turn X/X)? So on the 973ssd board how should we proceed with our weak floats? maybe a hand like QTo with one spade or QJdd or As8o or gutties w bdfd etc, should we be more willing to throw in a check raise? or we jus check float with them but gotta be more willing to check raise favorable turns like you did with the JdTo in this video when you turned gutty and FD

Sauce123 10 years ago

A simpler way to think about it is just that we require a weaker absolute hand strength hand to call on a dry board because there are less hands out there. It's the same sort of concept that we can call weaker hands on the flop when preflop ranges are wider.

Bulat.alt 10 years ago

Amazing video as always
The case i don't understand is the last hand 87o on the top right table .
8 J K board isn't favors BB calling range .
By betting flop you will get a lot of folds .
I feel you need a protection against 9 T Q A on turn - will be hard to call turn on this runouts isn't it ?
Best of luck in your games ;)
Your videos are the best

Matti 9 years, 11 months ago

Nice video Ben. Interesting to get some strategy ideas.

08.00: I notice that you open 3.5 bb on the button. You mention that any strategy works, but do you have any preferences in ante games? If yes, why?
11.15: You flat 99 SBvBTN based on his RFI on the button (58ish%). What is the logic here? Did I miss something you said?

mnl1337 9 years, 10 months ago

watched couple months no pokervideos. now i learn about herofloating and zerogappers. so much theory still left to learn :D

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