Hey, liked the video overall . Just I'd like to know what are the UTG and CO opening range in % points versus which you then constructed all these 3bet/call on BTN?
Also KT98ss (Khigh suit) call vs UTG seems suspect to me considering all the domination scenarios that can happen while we are dominating very rarely vs his range.
I believe I was assuming an UTG RFI of ~18% and CO RFI of ~30% and yes, I agree that KT98ss seems a little too speculative on the surface, but I checked it with solver and it seems to be okay as a combo that is at the bottom of our range. Thanks for the feedback!
Regarding the 7665s in min20: I would say raising the flop is a clear mistake since we are pretty much in the middle of our range and have maybe 30-35% EQ vs a stack off range, potentially complete dominated if we get it in 3ways and can’t raise/ fold neither.
As you said in the beginning of the hand, playing IP is powerful and we just make it easier for our opponents by allowing them to get the money in quickly.
While in theory the PFR shouldn’t have a cbetting range most players will be rather merged and not protect their checking range , so I would rather attack their checks but not their bets since they will still cbet all high FD and made hands.
Yeah, I think I agree with that argument. I think from what I have seen a lot of players in those types of populations seem to c-bet and then fold a lot when too merged, so that factored in my thought process, but I agree it's too ambitious to assume as much as I did, especially 3 ways and we are for sure more middling regarding where we are in our range. Great points!
AQJTdd turn calling feels like higher ev line in a vacuum as well as overall.
K785ds very loose 3b against a competent co.
7665 agree with AS; raising is a mistake.
KJT4ds feels like 3 bet or fold, rather 3 bet this hand than K785ds
AQT3ds would flat any combos to invite the limper into the pot. And many other reasons, realize equity etc. worst case limper who we actually are ahead of folds and co 4 bets=suicide.
AQJTdd turn could for sure be a better line if we decide on call. I think it depends a little more in this spot on the population than maybe in other spots because I see a lot of "screw it" calls with sets and worse flushes here often.
I think K875ds is fine to be honest, but especially in a weaker population for sure.
Yeah, I agreed with AS as well. Didn't like that the more I thought about it and should have mentioned in the video that a lot of that thinking was based on seeing a lot of folds vs raises, but it obvioulsy makes much more sense to attack their checks when they are betting merged and not balancing their checking range.
I think KJT4ds has a little more playability in single raised pots, so that could be why solver prefers that as a call and K875ds as a 3B. They are both quite close either way and I think can be argued at the end of the day for the lines you suggest.
For sure lots of good reasons to consider flatting in the AQT3ds spot, but I do think if we can get HU in a 3B pot IP vs the CO, then we can net more EV and again of course if we are in a weaker population such as this one they often are opening too wide, so it makes sense to widen the 3B range a little to include more combos like this IMO.
Both K875ds and KJT4ds are situational. All three options, fold, call, 3 bet could be argued depending on how you construct your ranges and the opponents you are facing.
AQJTdd I am sticking with my opinion of calling is far superior to shoving. I think worse flushes have a hard time check folding river, given the line, but could easily let go on the turn. Sets could also shove the river to get you off lower flushes.
AQT3ds plays well multiway, especially against weaker ranges. Im fine leveraging position here, keeping spr high. Here I could see myself 3 betting KJT4ds or K875ds to get the hand HU. Also rather call a 4 bet with either of these hands than with the AQT3 hand in case CO wakes up with a monster.
Hey Nick at 9:45 if villain puts you on AAxx and flop is Q23r then isn't villain calling off with a pair and a gutshot reasonable with a low spr? Villain has 15 outs... 11 to two pair, 4 to straight. Plus a bdfd.
Yes, but I think what I was referring to was his preflop play that usually puts him in a position to not succeed postflop in a low SPR situation vs my range.
Well, it depends on the situation I think as far as the ranking of rundowns is concerned. I think the middling rundowns are ones that we would like to get HU a little more often considering our suits usually aren't dominated as often and on top of that we don't run into better rundowns as often either, so 3-betting to gain better visibility makes sense. I think the big pairs with connectors are hands that would like to not get 4B as they don't play quite as well in those pots postflop as the rundowns, so they generally are flatted more often IP. I don't really find myself 3-betting that often IP with paired combos unless I am double suited and have an ace in my hand.
38mins- how does Ace Broadway DS fare v utg 4 bet shove? Actually, more specifically how does that fare v AAxx. What are best combos to play v AAxx? (thinking later stages in a tourney context when its a close decision/perceived as close decision due to pot odds)
Not the best regarding the Ace Broadway DS combos vs AA; ~33% with those, but with the double suited rundowns/connected combos you are ~43%. Generally the more visible combos vs AA are going to be the double suited unpaired combos that are further away from his AA if that makes sense. KQJTds for example is pushing slightly less EQ than JT76ds, but still in better shape than AKK7ds.
Hi I play a lot of PLO live and try to learn as much as I can. Could you explain why it is better to 3 bet more than to call in close spots against loose players, considering rake. I do not quite understand how we battle against rake with 3 bets. Maby like how the rake works.
Good question ZNAKE So, generally in live games if they aren't time raked, then you will of course have a pot rake structure (% taken capped to a certain amount) and rooms will often implement the "no flop no drop" policy. All that means is they don't take rake preflop, so you are incentivized to take more pots down preflop if possible, but you also want to play tighter overall. Defend far less often out of the BB and just keep your overall ranges a little tighter preflop. Of course in live PLO taking down the pot preflop isn't really a thing, but you still want to play tighter simply because in high rake environments the more hands you play=more rake taken at the end of the day. You also naturally will want to play tighter focusing on nuttier combos that play well in MW pots.
Ok, thanks for the good answer! I also have another question since often most of the players straddle around the table so that I only sit at around 50bb. What hands should i re pot someone in this dynamic, people are poting loose. I'm a little unsure if double suited rounddown like 7-6-5-4ds is good here, since people always calls and am not deep at all.
What are your thoughts on hand selection in this spots
Higher ranking cards would be preferable, but you can still 3B combos like 8765ds and KJT8ds. I would mix in some calls with 7654ds and even a few of the higher ranking rundowns for board coverage like KQJTds, but in general a lot of the double suited+connected higher ranking combos can 3B in those shorter stack situations.
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Hey, liked the video overall . Just I'd like to know what are the UTG and CO opening range in % points versus which you then constructed all these 3bet/call on BTN?
Also KT98ss (Khigh suit) call vs UTG seems suspect to me considering all the domination scenarios that can happen while we are dominating very rarely vs his range.
I believe I was assuming an UTG RFI of ~18% and CO RFI of ~30% and yes, I agree that KT98ss seems a little too speculative on the surface, but I checked it with solver and it seems to be okay as a combo that is at the bottom of our range. Thanks for the feedback!
Regarding the 7665s in min20: I would say raising the flop is a clear mistake since we are pretty much in the middle of our range and have maybe 30-35% EQ vs a stack off range, potentially complete dominated if we get it in 3ways and can’t raise/ fold neither.
As you said in the beginning of the hand, playing IP is powerful and we just make it easier for our opponents by allowing them to get the money in quickly.
While in theory the PFR shouldn’t have a cbetting range most players will be rather merged and not protect their checking range , so I would rather attack their checks but not their bets since they will still cbet all high FD and made hands.
Yeah, I think I agree with that argument. I think from what I have seen a lot of players in those types of populations seem to c-bet and then fold a lot when too merged, so that factored in my thought process, but I agree it's too ambitious to assume as much as I did, especially 3 ways and we are for sure more middling regarding where we are in our range. Great points!
AQJTdd turn calling feels like higher ev line in a vacuum as well as overall.
K785ds very loose 3b against a competent co.
7665 agree with AS; raising is a mistake.
KJT4ds feels like 3 bet or fold, rather 3 bet this hand than K785ds
AQT3ds would flat any combos to invite the limper into the pot. And many other reasons, realize equity etc. worst case limper who we actually are ahead of folds and co 4 bets=suicide.
AQJTdd turn could for sure be a better line if we decide on call. I think it depends a little more in this spot on the population than maybe in other spots because I see a lot of "screw it" calls with sets and worse flushes here often.
I think K875ds is fine to be honest, but especially in a weaker population for sure.
Yeah, I agreed with AS as well. Didn't like that the more I thought about it and should have mentioned in the video that a lot of that thinking was based on seeing a lot of folds vs raises, but it obvioulsy makes much more sense to attack their checks when they are betting merged and not balancing their checking range.
I think KJT4ds has a little more playability in single raised pots, so that could be why solver prefers that as a call and K875ds as a 3B. They are both quite close either way and I think can be argued at the end of the day for the lines you suggest.
For sure lots of good reasons to consider flatting in the AQT3ds spot, but I do think if we can get HU in a 3B pot IP vs the CO, then we can net more EV and again of course if we are in a weaker population such as this one they often are opening too wide, so it makes sense to widen the 3B range a little to include more combos like this IMO.
Both K875ds and KJT4ds are situational. All three options, fold, call, 3 bet could be argued depending on how you construct your ranges and the opponents you are facing.
AQJTdd I am sticking with my opinion of calling is far superior to shoving. I think worse flushes have a hard time check folding river, given the line, but could easily let go on the turn. Sets could also shove the river to get you off lower flushes.
AQT3ds plays well multiway, especially against weaker ranges. Im fine leveraging position here, keeping spr high. Here I could see myself 3 betting KJT4ds or K875ds to get the hand HU. Also rather call a 4 bet with either of these hands than with the AQT3 hand in case CO wakes up with a monster.
Good video on 3betting. Thanks Nick.
You're welcome and thanks for the feedback.
Hey Nick at 9:45 if villain puts you on AAxx and flop is Q23r then isn't villain calling off with a pair and a gutshot reasonable with a low spr? Villain has 15 outs... 11 to two pair, 4 to straight. Plus a bdfd.
Yes, but I think what I was referring to was his preflop play that usually puts him in a position to not succeed postflop in a low SPR situation vs my range.
32:40 - doesn't the rank of DS rundowns make a big difference to these frequencies?
Also, aren't middling rundowns generally over valued compared to big pairs with connecters? ie QQJT/JJT9 better than T987/9876.
I feel like I need to do some work on rundowns
I guess thats a topic covered in some vids?
Well, it depends on the situation I think as far as the ranking of rundowns is concerned. I think the middling rundowns are ones that we would like to get HU a little more often considering our suits usually aren't dominated as often and on top of that we don't run into better rundowns as often either, so 3-betting to gain better visibility makes sense. I think the big pairs with connectors are hands that would like to not get 4B as they don't play quite as well in those pots postflop as the rundowns, so they generally are flatted more often IP. I don't really find myself 3-betting that often IP with paired combos unless I am double suited and have an ace in my hand.
38mins- how does Ace Broadway DS fare v utg 4 bet shove? Actually, more specifically how does that fare v AAxx. What are best combos to play v AAxx? (thinking later stages in a tourney context when its a close decision/perceived as close decision due to pot odds)
Not the best regarding the Ace Broadway DS combos vs AA; ~33% with those, but with the double suited rundowns/connected combos you are ~43%. Generally the more visible combos vs AA are going to be the double suited unpaired combos that are further away from his AA if that makes sense. KQJTds for example is pushing slightly less EQ than JT76ds, but still in better shape than AKK7ds.
really loved this one ! tx alot
You're very welcome!
Hi I play a lot of PLO live and try to learn as much as I can. Could you explain why it is better to 3 bet more than to call in close spots against loose players, considering rake. I do not quite understand how we battle against rake with 3 bets. Maby like how the rake works.
Good question ZNAKE So, generally in live games if they aren't time raked, then you will of course have a pot rake structure (% taken capped to a certain amount) and rooms will often implement the "no flop no drop" policy. All that means is they don't take rake preflop, so you are incentivized to take more pots down preflop if possible, but you also want to play tighter overall. Defend far less often out of the BB and just keep your overall ranges a little tighter preflop. Of course in live PLO taking down the pot preflop isn't really a thing, but you still want to play tighter simply because in high rake environments the more hands you play=more rake taken at the end of the day. You also naturally will want to play tighter focusing on nuttier combos that play well in MW pots.
Ok, thanks for the good answer! I also have another question since often most of the players straddle around the table so that I only sit at around 50bb. What hands should i re pot someone in this dynamic, people are poting loose. I'm a little unsure if double suited rounddown like 7-6-5-4ds is good here, since people always calls and am not deep at all.
What are your thoughts on hand selection in this spots
Higher ranking cards would be preferable, but you can still 3B combos like 8765ds and KJT8ds. I would mix in some calls with 7654ds and even a few of the higher ranking rundowns for board coverage like KQJTds, but in general a lot of the double suited+connected higher ranking combos can 3B in those shorter stack situations.
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