Thank you very much for the compliments. I aim to make videos that are very focused and easy to follow yet also as informative as possible, and I am happy to hear I have accomplished this for you. I look forward to continue putting out content that is well received. Please let me know if you have any suggestions for specific topics you'd like to see in future videos. Thanks
Sure. Starting stack was 20k in this tournament and the buy in is 2k. Because it's a progressive KO tourney 1k of the total buy in goes toward the bounty pool. Let me know if you need more assistance with the math I explained that goes into figuring out pot odds when bounties are involved.
Not its ok thanks pretty sure I understand it but for some reason I had it in my head it was a 10k starting stack but that must have been the 1k. Enjoyed the video as usual your delivery is great and you seem to go into enough detail to explain but not too much that it gets boring.
Cheers
PS the whole oldskool 'chips change value argument' makes the T4o even more of a call.
FOOBAM8 years, 7 months agoOn the T4o hand a lot of factors have to be considered to estimate their range for shoving which as you pointed out should dictate your chip equity including the bounty boosting the "actual" pot size. Some of these are hard to analyze now without access to the exact amount of players left to bust, where the opponent stands compared to the other short stacks, etc. Your in game judgement on these factors is much clearer than what can be determined now and should be deferred to.
What are your thoughts concerning the increased preflop allins and the percentage of stack risked in bounty tournaments for busting players affecting your decision here as a big stack? It seems to me that middling/average stacks have more incentive to gamble and bust short stacks for at hand opportunity to pick up bounties because average stacks have less expectation of deep runs for high payouts. Conversely it seems big stacks have more incentive to bully middling stacks in more conventional (freeze out) ways as their means to go deeper in the tournament where bounties are even higher rather than taking slight negative chip ev (including bounty boost) preflop allins for bounties.
Thanks for the well thought out analysis and questions FOOBAM. I do think that considering stack sizes is perhaps one of if not the most important thing to focus on in these PSKO tournaments. The most important thing to consider when deciding if a slightly negative chip ev call to obtain a bounty should be stack utility in my opinion. If calling and losing the all in will put you at a massive disadvantage regarding stack utility (ie calling a 12bb shove from mp with TJs in the sb when your stack size is 25bbs) then I would consider it best to fold instead. Being left with <15bbs really changes your available options moving forward in the tournament, especially in a bounty tournament where people will be looking to call your shoves lighter when you get into that short stack range. However in the T4o example from the video i have well over 100bbs so my stack utility changes very little if I call and lose, and given the fact that the math is close to a correct call with almost any 2 cards when factoring in the bounty I think this makes it a pretty easy call.
I do understand your reasoning that preserving my stack for future larger bounties is something we should also be considering, but given my chip position in this example I will continue to cover everyone at this table if I call and lose here. I will also cover almost everyone in the tournament if I do end up changing tables, so its not something that worries me much. In a more shallow stacked tournament where the blinds increase more rapidly I believe this factor would be more important to consider.
The reason why we want to build a big stack to begin with in these bounty tournaments is the ability it gives us to make more speculative calls for bounties once we are deep in the tournament. Whether we like it or not, with bounties being such a large part of the prize pool in this format, we really will have to make slightly negative chip ev calls quite often as long as the math is close in order to gain the most equity possible from the prize pool.
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Just wanted to say your videos are very clear and concise, i enjoy your thought process and hand analysis. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Thank you very much for the compliments. I aim to make videos that are very focused and easy to follow yet also as informative as possible, and I am happy to hear I have accomplished this for you. I look forward to continue putting out content that is well received. Please let me know if you have any suggestions for specific topics you'd like to see in future videos. Thanks
@41 mins when doing bounty calcs can you confirm starting stacks and buy in is it a 10k or 5k starting stack and is it a 1k or 2k buy in. Thanks
Sure. Starting stack was 20k in this tournament and the buy in is 2k. Because it's a progressive KO tourney 1k of the total buy in goes toward the bounty pool. Let me know if you need more assistance with the math I explained that goes into figuring out pot odds when bounties are involved.
Not its ok thanks pretty sure I understand it but for some reason I had it in my head it was a 10k starting stack but that must have been the 1k. Enjoyed the video as usual your delivery is great and you seem to go into enough detail to explain but not too much that it gets boring.
Cheers
PS the whole oldskool 'chips change value argument' makes the T4o even more of a call.
Thanks for the well thought out analysis and questions FOOBAM. I do think that considering stack sizes is perhaps one of if not the most important thing to focus on in these PSKO tournaments. The most important thing to consider when deciding if a slightly negative chip ev call to obtain a bounty should be stack utility in my opinion. If calling and losing the all in will put you at a massive disadvantage regarding stack utility (ie calling a 12bb shove from mp with TJs in the sb when your stack size is 25bbs) then I would consider it best to fold instead. Being left with <15bbs really changes your available options moving forward in the tournament, especially in a bounty tournament where people will be looking to call your shoves lighter when you get into that short stack range. However in the T4o example from the video i have well over 100bbs so my stack utility changes very little if I call and lose, and given the fact that the math is close to a correct call with almost any 2 cards when factoring in the bounty I think this makes it a pretty easy call.
I do understand your reasoning that preserving my stack for future larger bounties is something we should also be considering, but given my chip position in this example I will continue to cover everyone at this table if I call and lose here. I will also cover almost everyone in the tournament if I do end up changing tables, so its not something that worries me much. In a more shallow stacked tournament where the blinds increase more rapidly I believe this factor would be more important to consider.
The reason why we want to build a big stack to begin with in these bounty tournaments is the ability it gives us to make more speculative calls for bounties once we are deep in the tournament. Whether we like it or not, with bounties being such a large part of the prize pool in this format, we really will have to make slightly negative chip ev calls quite often as long as the math is close in order to gain the most equity possible from the prize pool.
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