$2k 6-Max PLO SCOOP Live Session (part 11)
Posted by Phil Galfond
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Meh.
This series is getting really long for us who don't play MTT PLO.
It was nice when you tossed in a couple of cash tables, but now all I hope for is this series to end so we can have some interesting CG-PLO content this summer from you.
I unfortunately was busier this summer than expected. I wanted to mix in some HH reviews from Vegas, but I honestly couldn't find the time, so I let the MTT series go.
I just got back to Vancouver 2 nights ago so I can get to making new vids again.
What do you (and others) want to see?
Any interesting live plo hands in vegas? Or plo zoom cash?
And welcome to Vancouver :)
Something like raising turns series, but, umm, lets say playing draw hands now Ip and OOP and multiway :D???
No worries Phil, you are entitled to some vacation. How did Vegas treat you?
As for videos I would like to see, I'm a big fan of how Jnandez makes them, i.e analyze a concept then show relevant HH (and play some live while focusing on that concept).
I would like to see a series about raising flops in single raised pots// playing flops in 3bet pots as preflop caller.
Welcome back to Canada
I'd love to see a series on range construction for particular plays preflop or on the flop. IE how we should construct a range when flatting a flop cbet OOP from the blinds. Start with the general premise (building an +EV exploitable OR conversely trying to build an unexploitable range) for a particular spot (say from the BB against a BTN open OR on the BTN as a CCer vs an EP open) and then breakdown some strategy and philosophy that guides your decision making (taking into consideration player type etc). Then find some hands that help illustrate this analysis and go through them in a replayer at the end of the video. Similar to Jnandez's series on playing postflop as a preflop aggressor. Each video could be a different common preflop or postflop spot.
would even be interested to see you team up with all of the elite and essentialPLO coaches and kind of game plan how to attack all of the most common spots in the game. Divy up the video making series and make it one giant continuing series. Even better would be if at certain end points of the process (ie after the final preflop video was made) you had all of the coaches get together on a 25-30 minute skype open discussion to address questions brought up in the forums as well as thoughts on each others videos.
this would be an unbelievable video series imo.
Thanks for the suggestions, guys! Please, keep them coming.
I may not have the time to do something super-special for next week, but I'll start working on any ideas that I like in the coming couple weeks.
I play a lot of PLO MTT along with cash games so I am finding this incredibly valuable, and thus I have to admit I am biased here. However, PLO MTT strats aren't completely irrelevant to PLO cash games. They will sharpen your short-stacked (or low-SPR) game, which boils down to a lot of math spots both preflop and flop (sometimes turn/river although they come up rarely). Personally, watching PLO MTT vids (or CAP cash vids for that matter) helped my play in 3- and 4-bet pots by quite a bit, and I think it should be helpful to other serious PLO players as well.
But on the other hand, it would also be great if we can see more cash vids from you, Phil! And congrats again for making a deep run in this one.
Phil- I personally think the best videos you have done are the couple with Jakoon, where you guys are reviewing a MTT. A video with another ROI pro where you are playing a MTT or where a non-PLO pro is playing PLO would be great
i wanna see some hold em from ya :-O
some more hold em videos would be great Phil :)
Continuing the HU PLO series would be nice. Was shown as Episode 1, so plenty to come ;-)
http://www.runitonce.com/pro-training/videos/a-closer-look-heads-up-plo/
Definitely HU PLO
phil,
do whatever type of video you and the guys want but please don't stop this series . don't know if theres 2 or more parts but I'm personally enjoying a lot and would be silly to stop or even to adjourn now that you are on the FT
There are 3 more parts, I believe, and they'll be released AT LEAST once every other week from here on out. I'd like to mix in some other PLO though, so probably they'll just alternate.
Hey Phil,
Nice video, as always.
When you use a more passive style in an attempt to lower variance, do you think you're losing out on lots of EV? If that's the case, isn't it better to use your skill advantage more?
ICM is a big factor, but it seems like despite playing very well, you're not able to use your HS cash experience over them as much when you play somewhat similarly to the better regs in these tournaments.
Second off, I always see you bet fairly low equity/no equity hands on the flop. Is this better in PLO than in NLHE, because even your weak bluffs have decent equity against his calling range?
Hey Chael,
I think I'm missing out on some EV, yes, but I still think I'm doing the right thing. A lot of my skill edge comes from seeing the river and deducing their hand with multiple streets of information. To try to see more rivers, I need to employ a more passive style.
This is more a adjustment to shorter stack tournament play than it is a difference between PLO and NL. In theory, since I'm keeping variance lower, I check back a lot of strong but not super-strong hands, which makes my cbet range is more polarized. Since I (should) have my super-strong hands but not the mid-strength stuff as much, their marginal hands are often in very bad shape against the value portion of my range.In practice, the fact of the matter is that tournament play involves a lot of implied threat. A flop bet can mean facing a turn and river bet for a significant portion of their stack (and tournament life), which causes people to over-fold the flop. I also get to bet relatively small with my c-bets and lay myself a good price, and I can find some turn cards to continue profitably bluffing with no equity.
Off topic vid idea I'd like to see in the future: mental game- motivation/setting goals, playing on the road/WSOP, playing back at "home," eat/sleep/play routine. Stuff along those lines. I know Lefort had a pretty good series with similar ideas. Personally I feel like being out for WSOP was physically and mentally tolling.
Phil,
As for the small bet in MTT and implied threat thereof - if another reg is implementing this strategy against you, would you find yourself defending (calling, raising, etc.) more often than most others? If there is a way of reducing variance when you're the one facing these small bets, what would that be?
Imo it's easy to think about how to use this strategy when we're the one with initiative, but coming up with counter-strategy wasn't really trivial for me. Below is something I have been thinking about:
a) In theory, facing a small bet from what seems to be a polar range, the correct play would be to call a lot. This is somewhat weird, because the polar range usually should bet on a larger side.. but in MTT, we can probably regard the small flop c-bet as being bigger than it really is, due to the implied threat. Anyway, if we can expect more barrels from that range, I *think* we can x/r with a lot of hands on turn, instead of flop, just to get that one more bet with both our value hands and bluffs. If this happens often, it can be more +EV to not have a flop x/r range at all unless the board is really draw heavy. This is much riskier in PLO than in NLHE though, which I think is something that Chael was getting at when asking that question.
b) Another possible counter-strategy would be to use overbets and donk bets quite liberally, although this will make things much more complicated and we would need to put in a bit of work to construct our ranges. I guess one of the main ideas behind donking (in the context of block betting) is that we want to discourage his bluffs, mostly by folding them out, which will make up a huge part of his small c-betting range. Also, we can kind of force him to revert to bigger bet sizings in the long run. I haven't implemented much of this strategy yet though, so these are mostly random ideas that are floating in my head. Anyway, this is easier to do in NLHE than in PLO, and ofc we can't overbet in PLO.
What do you think? Sorry for the rambling, but if you could give me some insight into this, that'll be great. :)
Always enjoying your vid!
- Vince
Who's Vince?
Umm, whom you swapped action with? :)
Never heard of him.
A leak-finder focusing on someone playing HU PLO vs different types of opponents would be good (different styles of regs as well as vs fish). Or just a general series for players new to PLO HU.
+1
If someone has 5/10+ HU PLO footage, I would love to review it!
What software do you recommend for recording such a video? Camtasia?
Camtasia has a 30 day free trial I believe. I think there are other options too, but I'm not sure of them.
Thanks I'll play around with that although it wouldn't be applicable to this request since I play on Bovada and they don't offer HU tables higher than 2/4. It's also anonymous which puts a different spin on things.
So we have Part 11 of a subject that, for a lot of guys including me, is not very appealing since we haven't and don't plan on playing high stakes PLO MTTs anytime soon... :(
Don't get me wrong, Im a big fan of your videos, but I hope you haven't wasted all your energies on making this long series. Regarding video requests I think High stakes footage is fine, but not ideal, because there was some cash game action sprinkled in in the long series. PLO live hands can be cool for entertainment purposes (especially if hands are with the famous live players).
Anyways, in my opinion it's time for a concept/theory video. I really liked your "thinking out loud" videos and I was able to benefit quite a lot from them. So hopefully you can continue that series Mybe you don't have a topic in mind, then here's another suggestion: Can you make a video about 3bet/4bet or 5bet scenarios in PLO where a lot of money goes in Preflop and you give advice how certain hands play out at different stack depths 50bb-100bb-150bb-200bb deep? Probably you can imagine what kind of mistakes some people make and explain why its bad.
acefromspace a true plo visionary
lol fu Joey. I thought your podcasts were kinda nice and I told my friends about them. im not gonna do that anymore.
I'd like to see a video on how it is Phil Galfond makes hundreds of videos but nobody seems to overtake him as the best.
Flattery will get you everywhere with me.
lol what the fk are you doing peter brown nose
...He's making videos at pretty much the highest stakes every week opening his game up to all his opponents and he's still killing it. Nobody else is making videos in those games.
I was serious, I'd really like to see a video explaining how that's possible.
Maybe there is something is not telling us ;)
Lol peter just lol. Your tone seems so off almost asif you already know and your trolling. How much online poker has phil played in the past few months? All his vids are from a while back. You cant consider him to be the best knowing this. I feel embaressed for you. Havent seen him playing the 50/100 100/200 plo games on stars. Have you? - this is absolutley noway to target or offend phil. Just pretty behooved at a brown nose
yawn
In all seriousness, I think there's a simple answer to this. Who is more advantaged? A player who positions himself at the center of a vibrant, progressive, motivated learning community? Or a player who excludes himself from that community?
HU PLO
I would love to see an in-depth miniseries about some important PLO postflop concept. The "Raising Turns" series was superb, and from discussing with others I know that many of us got a lot out of it.
Some ideas:
- 3-bet pots
- Playing overpairs postflop
- Choosing well between passive and aggressive lines
- River play IP and OOP
Great suggestions, Zen!
I took one of them. I hope you guys will be pleased with the result.
Did it slightly differently than I did in 'Raising Turns' so be sure to give me feedback for the other parts of the series so that I can make it how you want.
Doing concept videos that are primarily HH related is about 8x less time consuming for me than pure powerpoint theory videos (while still harder than a standard play vid), so it's something I can definitely get on board with and refine with your help.
^ 100% accurate.
And Daniel, I'm pretty sure Peter was just being complimentary. Nothing wrong with that. Brown nosing implies he is looking for something in return. If your post was a level then you got me because I didn't quite get it all.
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