$2.5/$5 Live Zoom Session
Posted by Sauce123
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3VID IN 1MON,MONEY WELL SPENT!!
Ben,will you do a video about AI VS HUMAN?
Ben should certainly comment on what he thinks about Libratus.
8:00: How wide do you estimate is his range to make a profitable cbet with TT in such a bad flop. That flop seems to impact a lot in his calling 4b range and if he floats you with KQs or something you are going to have some problems going to showdown as he has a lot of eq vs your hand and you are going to play somehow faceup turn and riv I suppose.
I think I'd be doing some bluffing on turn and river because other than KQs I'm at stone bottom of my range.
30:00: Which hands do you usually use to balance that sizing flop and turn?
How are you going to play the most dangerous rivers like a heart for example?
Anything with some kind of backdoor on flop. Lots of draws on turn.
On hearts I think shove is too thin. I think it's probably fine to develop a block bet range. It's also possible my flop->turn line isn't optimal and I should mix some jams on this runout.
Ran a quick Pio and it looks like AK is mixing between 2/3 pot and jam on turn, block betting flushing rivers. So probably a reasonable line by me or at most a small mistake. I agree it looks a bit awkward though; I'm usually surprised the computer likes ~2/3/~2/3 on textures and SPRs like this because it feels brutal on spade/heart/Q/J rivers... which is a lot of rivers!
Great questions imo. How do you play flushdraws on the turn in that spot ? Seems horrible to bet/fold or bet/call. My first guess would be to either go allin (and add AK AQ into this size ie the least river playable hands) or check.
how can we bet 2/3 pot on turn into a 300 dollar pot. and block bet a flush card on river. we will have 266 behind after betting 200 on the turn. the pot will be 800 on the river.
what size block bet is pio using on the river?
@2'40 river we have a pretty strong hand and villains range contains a lot of underpair as you said, but do you think we will have enough bluffs to balance with the slight overbet siz ? Should we float on the flop with a hand like KsJd/KxJs for example and turning them into bluff ? I'm probably a bit too foldy flop
He's betting roughly half pot, so I'm trying to defend something like 35% of my range here or thereabouts.
That's basically PR+ or FD on this board. Plan is to turn the weakest pairs into bluffs on flushing rivers. We prob don't get to defend a hand like KQdd or JTdd on flop so we won't have a lot of flushes aside from 4xdd. The only hands we beat with 4x on this action sequence are the pure air hands (KTcc for example etc etc) that stab flop which is relatively unlikely 3way. Since IP isn't defending 54s probably pre, that means we're rarely winning with 4x. So, I like the idea of developing a polarized range (small overbet) of some 9x+ combos and bluffing most missed spades along with some 4x depending on what we think the checkdown EV of 4x is in this spot. If we think checkdown EV of 4x is ~0, then we'll tend to bluff those combos fairly often and set X threshold higher at like 55+, giving up some spades. If we think 4x wins some potshare then it's probably correct to mostly bluff spades.
I doubt finding bluffs will be difficult on this runout.
at 24:14 you said not necessarily a bad play with that stack, can you elaborate please?
Limping is good when you're short because if you raise OOP can just jam on you, negating your positional advantage.
okay ya that was the only reason i could think of , just wanted to make sure if it was right and if there were more. thanks
33:00: Which hands are you going to call the river with given your line of betting flop and checking turn, it seems that you have to check some strong overpairs turn to protect your checking range (weak pairs), isnt it?
Full houses and AA make a lot of sense. And Jx. That should do it right?
What program do you use for your betzings? As far as I see you scroll to different sizings? Great vid btw ;)
I use Table Ninja 2 hooked up to a gamepad.
46:15 turn play. Less than pot size bet left, shouldn't we go all in or check, even when we are leading in 3b pot? I thought just OTR we can have few sizings, when less than pot size bet left.
Could you elaborate on it?
Generally when the board is dry and we're representing a polarized range it's EV maximizing to increase the pot geometrically over the remaining streets.
In this case I sized down on river because I wanted to maximize against overpairs that raised too frequently on flop.
Don't you have higher stakes to play? xD
22min- the Ahq hand where you block river , is this part of a multiple size strategy , what sizing would you choose with a hand like Ah6x or flushes. ty
I think mostly blocking here is the play with occasional larger bets. The obvious hands to bet bigger with are flushes, which unblock 6x/Qx. Most other hands however are fine blocking because IP will be forced to call with 6x and raise ST/FL/bluff. If we hold 6x we mostly want value from a Q but there are enough ST/FL in IP's range we can't go huge for value.
A more general question: can you expand more on your strategy when you blockbet rivers? I know it will be very different from situation to situation, but as a rule of a thumb, when we blockbet, is it a part of a mixed strategy? Do we mainly factor in our hand strength/blockers (e.g. mostly doing it with mid-strength hands)? Also, if we use mixed strategy with blockbets, do we need to have a large sizing for our second range, which would be more polar in order to maximize our EV for the whole range? If I have to pick a hand for these questions, because it's too broad of a question, I'd have the AQ at 22 min ;)
I'll expand on my response from above^^.
Blocking is weighted towards medium strength hands but also contains some B3B and BC with stronger value hands so that IP can't just raise every hand better than "medium" and add loads of bluffs.
The amount of extra sizings we add on river has a lot to do with how well we've followed the hand ranges from preflop-->river and how to best maximize EV from the distribution. Blocking a lot when our opponent can improve often on river and/or has a bunch of slowplays is often a safe option.
Great video as always Ben :). Could you do a series on blind play sometime maybe? A few questions if you dont mind..
Defend J4o BVB to a minraise. Do you have a folding range or are we defending 80%+?
Q9cc hand you overbet and call a raise by a villain playing 13/4. You talk about his value range for calling, but what bluffs do you expect him to have to justify a call here?
You defend QTcc BTN vs CO to a 2.2x with regs in the blinds. Whats the plan vs a squeeze? Dont you think this hand plays better as a 3bet? Esp in agro dynamics like the ones in zoom games.
Co open 3x, BTN 3b 9x, we 4b BB TcTd to 21x. This is a relatively small sizing, can you explain why you choose this specific sizing and why not a bigger one? If you were bluffing with a hand like A5ss would you be sizing bigger exploitively to have more FE?
These are insightful comments but can you narrow it down to one or two things?
^sure
BTN calls. Flop is AJ8r. We cbet 1/4 pot. Can you explain what purpose does this serve? Villain will float almost entire range to this cbet and it will be very tough to play turns no?
After getting raised on the flop with 99 on J98 you donkbet the J turn and bet 33% on a 3 river. Your opponent berates you:
Shouldn't you be betting larger on turn and river since you can have ATs/KTs/76s type bluffs in your range when there is only one combo of J9s possible so that your opponent can't really block 99/88 effectively?
Let me preface this by saying I have basically no idea what's optimal in this spot because it comes up so infrequently.
My thinking was that I'd develop a protection range on flop where some of the "bluffs" would be hands like QJs/JTs. When the J pairs on the turn it seemed like going bet/shove would be dicey with bluffs because I didn't think my opponent was supposed to raise overpairs very frequently on flop vs lead. So I sized down to pick a single value/block sizing with Jx> and intended to add bluffs from the ATs/KTs/87s/T9s you describe and target overpairs for turn+river folds. It's possible I should go bigger on turn/river, I think a lot of it depends on the frequencies of Jx/overpair in IP's flop raising range as compared with clear value raises like 2PR+. As overpair freq increases I want to go bigger and bluff more, as it decreases I want to do more blocking; as it gets closer to 0 I want to size up with 99/88 and develop a more polarized value region, including bluffs with 9/8 in them..
The more bad hands like QJs/T9s/87s with very limited potential you start donking, the more incentive you give for opponents to raise you with overpairs and gutshots like KQ.
You would be way out of line here in this 4-way 3-bet pot that smashes many player's ranges to start betting these bad hands with a high frequency.
What I do like about your play is that you decide to donk into this player again on the turn, giving a sound explanation based on assumed range distributions.
This player probably expected you to always check the turn, making it easier for him to play his overpairs etc. Maybe he watched too many videos from Doug Polk on youtube where it is advocated to always check to the aggressor no matter what.That is also why he started berating you: he wanted to make this spot easy to play but instead some dude that doesn't have higher stakes to play made his life tough!
37:00 98 after turn goes x/x don't you think that you have big range advantage and once you called his cbet 4way it will be hard for you to find bluffs filling in for such a big river bet? Thanks!
Hands as strong as QT might end up being a bluff on this runout I think.
If you "can't find bluffs," consider whether it might be true that some nonbluffs have betting EV>checking if your opponent was clairvoyant. Then compare how he might in fact be playing and see if expanding the bluffing range is +EV.
Hey Ben, great stuff as always!
37:07 3b pot on AK4r you decide to go for under 1/3 pot, would appreciate if you could go in some detail on why you chose this size, i tend to do some checking on this texture and develop a rather polar betting range as i think protection is not that important and the small size shouldn't benefit that many hands in my range.
Thank you :)
computer poker
Thank you :)
Thanks !
@16:55, I don't like that size. I guess I'm representing an 88-Qx type of range primarily but meh.
@44:15, you'd size 20-25% pot on turn?
@last, AK, 87, A9 kinda stuff.
Have you discussed why you use your 3bet sizings? IP you sized $12 to $34 or $12 to $32, and OOP you went $12 to $58.
There are pros and cons to lots of different sizings, these are the ones I think are best currently.
@1448you have 55 ，could you rise55 on flop every time ? could you talk about more the flop play ?
BTN calls. Flop is AJ8r. We cbet 1/4 pot. Can you explain what purpose does this serve? Villain will float almost entire range to this cbet and it will be very tough to play turns no?
@29.50 w AK hand in 3b pott
how can we bet 2/3 pot on turn into a 300 dollar pot. and block bet a flush card on river. we will have 266 behind after betting 200 on the turn. the pot will be 800 on the river.
what size block bet is pio using on the river when we only have 1/3 pot bet left.
i understand using the nut flush in this small blocking bet range on the river. But when we use medium strength hands. seems like a tough spot to figure out when to BC since the pot is just so large. Would pio suggest betting like 80 dollars?
Because this spot seems kinda tough to play and we are suggested to use blocking bet on a lot of bad rivers. diamond, heart, Q, J. Should we instead check raise turns w draws as well as AK AQ type hands. Or would you prefer the overbet jam turn line instead?
Or just play computer poker and do the 2/3 pot turn and block bet 88 dollars on bad rivers and decide
Master Sauce! :D Thanks for the video always so entrertaining!
@2:00 you over call Q9cc from sb and it goes 3 way. flop is 994ss, checks to btn and he bets 16/38. you call. I feel like in these spots the action almost always goes check, check turn and we miss a street of value. Do you think there's any other line we could take to get more value from this hand other than throwing out a river bet and hoping for a call? Sometimes I think in theory it would make sense to go for a very small x/r with our entire flop continuing range to fold out 2 over card hands from villain. I feel like its a situation that comes up somewhat frequently, but its hard to get paid off in this spot and we always let villain realize his equity when he checks back turn (which is almost always).
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