$2.5/$5 6-Max Zoom NLHE Live Session (part 1)
Posted by Sauce123
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One of your better video's this year, more insightful comments than average.
@6:06 Qd4d on KJd94, this hand makes very little sense to me. You float very light, indicating that his range is super wide, then you improve and you fold. Seems inconsistent.
Some very good plays by Sauce in this video, but I do agree with this hand being played sub-optimally. The button is playing very tight(17/13) and even with a wide opening range from his position, we have to assume he has our range crushed on a KJ9 board. I'm guessing Sauce made the call because he interpreted the big sizing as weak and wanted to see what villain would do on turn. I'm guessing if villian checked turn, Sauce would fire at a high frequency on the river.
2nd q: What about cring the turn? You block the Q10 + a few 2pair combos with your 4
@STN
We can't really deduce that Button has a 4 in his range. At 17/13 there is a very small chance he has a 4. It is highly likely that the only hands that have a 4 in his range are a4s and 44s.
However it is interesting that the Q4d makes it a bit more likely that button is firing with a flush draw. He can very easily have hands like QJS, T8S, AJS in his range.
I strongly disagree with your opinion on that hand; line seems very standard.
I find it a bit odd but if Sauce isn't calling on a Q river against most strategies that triple barrel this board (probably 70%+ pot) the improvement OTT doesn't seem to be enough in terms of range vs range equity to call again against his turn sizing.
@ forhayley
How do you construct your ranges on the flop and turn then? If you call the flop with gutshots that don't have overcards or pairs, you are asking for a high barrel frequency on a board like this where his range is much stronger. If you then start folding on turns that are in the top 20% of turns equitywise hand vs range, having a profitable call on the flop becomes very difficult. The equity difference between this hand and A9 is only 4-5%, but our hand has more nut potential, having lower equity against 87 should be discounted because 87 has reverse implied odds on a T river against our hand, our hand can make straights, whereas hands like A9/J8 cannot!
Call turn with Kx, backdoor spades, any any 9+ with gutter. Probably call some frequency of non gutter Jx as well depending on what we think of his barrel strategy and how he plays Kx, call AT also. I think we want to be approaching MDF here as we can't allow him much +EV double barrels on this card with hands like Ax. I think Q4 is close to a call here.
can we put Q4s in crT Range? I assume (atleast that would be my 0815 strategy) we are not c/r the Flop a lot (especially against that sizing), so we can take a couple of strong hands into a cc cr range to "protect" our looser floats.
The problem with MDF is that it ignores range vs range equities. If all hands have 48-52% equity, folding frequencies would be close to 0%. On the contrary, if your opponents range is much stronger than yours, you cannot stop him from barreling at a high frequency, forcing you to fold more than MDF on the flop. Your Q4dd @ KJ9r could be an example of that.
On a Q turn your equity is far lower than on a 4 turn. Calling on the flop should indicate that you will have plenty of +EV calls, or that you opponent won't barrel that often but will let you bluff profitable on rivers. I haven't seen you argue for either of those two.
@9:30 KsQd on Kd4d2c2s, what hands do you start bluffing here?
Lots. Most but not all floats bet turn here, and because of the dry flop there will be a lot of backdoors mixed into my range: QJcc, maaaybe JTcc, AdJx, 65s, A5s/A3s (though these mostly fold preflop), as well as flopped flush draws.
@17:40 nice bluffshove with the TsTc on 5d8s7sQhJs. How wide would you call a blank river (like the 2h)?
Yeah that was a very good read. Had the perfect blocker to make that bluff with to. That type of move works against a high percentage of passive players. However I would be cautious on applying that move on players that will most likely call with 2 pair in that situation.
Depends on sizing of course. Generally I'm calling pairs whose kicker blocks a high frequency portion of villain's value region, i.e., if I think he's value betting AQ, I'm very likely to call all Qx+ on river. After that I'll probably undercall bluffcatchers because I don't think weak players run 3barrels on this board often enough on blanks.
@22:55 Tc8c on Ac9c3hQd, do have a semi bluffing range here? Calling here with low flushdraws as a strategy is dominated by him barreling hands like KJ/KT.
It's possible that XR turn with low FDs and some frequency of AJ+ is superior to what I'm doing. I think KJ/KT are unlikely 3bets for many players in the metagame so perhaps I'm exploiting that by XR turn less here.
Awesome video! Your thought process is so clear and it seems like you're never lost in a hand, very fun to watch. The TT bluff was amazing - i was thinking in game oh hes gotta fold that river. then you ship it haha. One question - what do you think is a good win rate for the 2.5/5 Zoom game?
Thanks! I have no idea what a good winrate is really. I think anything above 2bb/100 is very good, and anything above 5bb/100 is excellent.
So let's say you are very good and make 3bb at 5-10. If you 2 table at 6max you are only making 60/hr? that seems like a terrible hourly for a top tier player
Why would you restrict yourselves to 2 tables?
3bb at 5-10 would mean $300 every 1000 hands, 2 tabling you get 500 hands per hour, so $150 an hour. And yeah why 2 table anyway?
Very good video. Lots of interesting spots. I am curious on how you construct your SB/Button 3B range against EP and Mid Position Raises. I have a good strategy in place for BB/SB vs button raises but not the other positions.
At 22:41 you 3b KQos against the Hijack's open. Would you also do this with QJs, 88, ATs, Ajos against a looser player?
Yes, I'd 3b most of those hands. KQo is basically the bottom of my 3b range.
like this vid so much!
awesome ben, thx !
Dear Ben, thank you very much for keeping your promise about making a 6m zoom video.
I have a question ( i hope its not that big of a stupid question, i am a big noob).
On the 17 min hand, 10s10C 5d8s7sQh you call the turn river because he has 99 in his value bet range and also some flush draws.( you say so yourself) When the Js hits and he bets you feel he is weak because of hist betting amount. then you shove all in. If you were working on the assumption he had flush draws when you called the turn, why reraise when the flush hits? maybe the river bet was small, but since you check called flop and turn, he thinks you are weak ( he thinks you have Q10 or 99 or A8 suited)(maybe it is here where i am wrong cause people dont interpret check calling as week ) and so bets small to try and get value with his supposed flush. I mean, if he had , say As4s would he play exactly as he did?
Z, I think most players online are playing much trickier than you think. It's very common for good players to play very passively IP in 3bp with nut hands in order to induce semibluffs from villain and to protect their calling range with weaker hands like the TsT.
SAUCE you are terrible at no limit. go gotta squeeze that A4s at 2:59
seeing you lose a bunch of your lunch money in this video Sauce.
HEY SAUCE If I can get Andy Beal to back me will you play 100k hands HUNL and 100k Hands HORSE?. at 300-600. against me.
Im a fucking Horse man. A horse with toothpaste on the floor i swear.
Drugs are bad, mmmmkay?
@34:26 w K8o, are you balancing multiple sizes? Seems the hands you talk about targeting would allow you to bet a lot of tpgk hands for value, so it seems a range that includes those thinner hands would benefit from a size smaller than pot.
seems to me the counterstrat he could employ if he was clairvoyant to your ranges would be to attack the size that might be bluff heavy/value weak when you split ott. are you arguing he won't actually do much of this/be able to deduce which size is weaker? or are you balancing both ranges in such a way that this option is unavailable to him? doing some RPS w ur sizes? thx in advance.
Good question. I think I'm likely supposed to balance multiple sizes here. I'm not worried about him exploiting my play because I'm not even sure exactly how I balance each size here. It's very likely that if he was clairvoyant he'd find an exploit, but that's true of every spot.
can you name the device you are walking on? ty, stay in shape
It's a lifespan treadmill desk
Hey guys,
Sorry, I'll be slower commenting on this video and perhaps less detailed because I'm at the WSOP and on a pretty hectic schedule. I appreciate the positive feedback and comments so far, will try and respond when I can. Thanks for your patience!
Nice vids Ben!
Do you think it's profitable to flat suited wheels OOP preflop against IP 3bet (6~9%)?
+1 good question.
great video!
-at 2min, with 76s why do you decide to bet turn then shove river with this hand? i know it has equity and wants FE on turn given vulnerability but is that the reason to bluff with it? it has SD value and board doesn't so heavily benefit your range that u r gunna wanna start bluffing hands like this instead of KdQx QdJx type hands i would think. With those hands, we also block his strongest bluff catchers like AxQd or AxKd.
-at 9min, with KQ on K42dd2, you deciding between bet/shove river or check back and induce. what boards do you prefer to bet range smallish IP and then polarize range on river? When the equity swings strongly in your favor?
-at 19min, versus ur small bets, it makes sense to have some raising range but how would you approach it? ..... many FD type hands have equity and are way +EV as a call IP versus small bet but when raise, open self up to making pot really big/expensive and lessens his position advantage if u 3b flop (as u cud given the 6 is blankish and u got kk/aa in range thats the near nuts). I dislike raising FD's in most spots IP versus small bets but its sometimes hard to find good bluffs if i dont. thoughts on flush draws IP like this?
Great video Ben. Really enjoyed this one. Particularly liked the fact that you specifically commented on your opponents good/bad plays. Keep it going! Thanks!
One of the best :)
25:00 in the J78Qr board, you check behind flop w 58s and start bluffcatching on the Q turn, what is your overall gameplan here? Also, do you think our checking back flop range needs to be defended aggresively ? Well I guess there are some certains turn where we should but this one doesn't seem to be one, villain should be double firing at a high frequency all his 9x non pair board , also many bad players bets really depolarized postflop, which makes calling worst?
Just wanted to know how do you approach those spots Ben, thanks so much and GL in WSOP!
I'll show up with a lot of hands from Qx through air, some backdoor draws and pair+draws, and then sometimes even some nutty hands, especially if I think my opponent is playing big pots in the X/X part of the tree. Air folds turn, small pockets fold turn, weak gutters fold turn, then I think most/all pairs call.
14:30 with the 43s. you said that you are going to cbet/3b all in otf. dont you think people are very polarized here? are we also cbet/3b all in overpairs? if not, we probably should protect our cb/c range with this combo also? thanks
P,
With an SPR this small on a board this blank, we aren't really worried about being beat if we have TT+. It's more about how to leverage our TT+ best in order to play the rest of our range for the most value.
@17:40 bluffshove with the TsTc on 5d8s7sQhJs. How would play versus a check from vilain ? Take showdown or stil turn our hand into a bluff ?
K,
I was just asking myself this question. I think our bluffs vs X are further down in our range, stuff like 56/76/66, potentially even 89/86/A8 if we think our range can support it. With TT I feel like we beat 99 often and we also might run into 54-98 type stuff occasionally, so it seems like a X.
hi ben great video!
@14:40 you chose to bet a 1/4 size with 34s on 234. Why are you choosing this protection/mergy type of sizing? Shouldn't we want to bet bigger and more polarized with the 3-better having the stronger range - or does the fact that us having far less straights/sets and being over 100bbs deep mean we cant adopt such a strategy since we are somewhat capped?
I'm assuming your going 1/4 with your whole range becase If you are using multiple bet sizes here this hand would of made the most sense to be in the bigger bet size/more polarized region?
P,
The 432 misses almost the entirety of button's call 3b range, so I retain a big advantage on the flop. I choose to CB very often in a spot like this to deny him free cards and to get value. You can also play this flop with multiple betsizings, one 3/4th pot type of size and one smaller size.
Cliff:
- KQ on k722, if villain has a more polarizing 3 bet range, we should check here to induce a bluff, if villain has a more merged range 3 bet range, we should be for value
- Cold4ring range is generally a merged value range that’s liner
- Op thinks over bet turn as a bluff on A56ss9c, after villain c/c is a good play
- Op punish this guy playing zoom on cell phones with river jam@17:00
- Bet about a quarter pot on k55, Q33, A66 kind of flop in 3 bet pot
- When your value hand block some hands that can call you, you should adjust your bet size
Very fun video to watch. Glad to see you running good. Thank you for making this video
Hi Ben and thanks for the video, awesome as usual! @min 31 Q7: which river would u keep betting and which size would u use?
F,
You can kind of do whatever you want on the river. With Q hi we end up mostly betting, but we'll also occasionally give up. Most rivers we're supposed to bluff with a mixture of blockers in order to deny information.
Sauce, I AM A FUCKING HORSE DUDE
Cold 4bet sizing, we went to 22bbs with 100bb stacks, BB vs the SB 3bet VS CO open.
You made a comment that something like AT wouldn't be a call for him, but what do you think about choosing a smaller size which does put hands like that closer to indifference between calling and folding? For example, is it perhaps more effective to go to like 17bbs, which gives us a better price and puts his range in tougher spots? Thanks.
D,
Good point. I don't know anyone who has this sort of stuff figured out yet. Intuitively, it seems like a min 4b is suboptimal because there's a large class of hands like AK AQ that really want folds, and it seems like these hands would want to 4b bigger.
This will mostly be true versus hands that are not dominated. AJo-A2o flops really poorly against AK-AQ and has negative implied odds for a large part. So they might want to 4-bet small to induce 'hoodflats'. Against hands like 96s they clearly want folds; so the sizing depends on the range distribution, how much dominated hands versus undominated hands, and how sensitive these hands are to certain sizing.
Hi Sauce. One of the best videos that Ive watched. Thanks
@ 21'50": BB is capped, youre not. Ok, I got it. Then you start cbeting ~1/2 pot. Nothing to say about that. But I remember you betting realy strong in the past, same board, same capped vs not-capped range. You said something like "I have T9 on this board, I block AT/A9 and its the top of villain c/c down range...", and then going big. I figured that 77 is the best hand to go big also, because dont block much and is way ahead villains range. But you cbet 1/2.
My guess is that in the spot that you go big is because both ranges are wide (SBvsBB, HU, with antes, etc). Or you seems unbalanced if you dont bet strong with 77.
Am I missing something?
Thank you a lot for your time.
We have plenty of time to bet huge on later streets after clearing out his air with a small flop bet. In a no limit game it's sometimes fine to delay putting money in until later streets open up the board texture. Sometimes geometric growth and blocker effects cut against one another and there isn't a clearly dominant betsizing strategy.
hey Ben, if you can please make a video with GTO range builder software, i think it will be awesome, and something new to bring to the table.. sorry for posting here, didnt know where else to do it... i understand is completely off topic my apologizes again ... Well to stay on topic, awesome video, way better than 95% of the other ones, amazing job mate. cheers and thanks in advance for taking my request in consideration :)
A,
I plan on doing this at some point in 2015. I'm familiar with the software.
Really looking forward to this!! Will you be using PokerSnowie or GTORB?
I'm sure that Sauce was talking about GTORB, not Snowie:
thanks , that will be awesome to watch, also i know i am been very demanding but if you can play HU with Teanus will be great!!! all the tournaments players are having the luxury of pros facing pros and hearing both of there points of view in the same hand from each player individual perspectives and points of views, its call "RIO Elite" and it will be awesome if you two guys can do the same with cash games... plus Teanuss said he will be happy to do it if the stakes are reasonable, if that happens, that will be like wauuuuu just the most epic day of the year for me and the fans, not even kidding!!! like amazing!!! well thanks in Advance again for taking my opinion and suggestions in consideration Ben.. cheers and Namaste ...
hahah nah..Super Teanuss is a very humble person, that`s why i enjoy his videos so much, this is what he posted
Hey Ben, how much equity do you think a winning 200z level player should be able to realize (r value) when over calling in the BB vs 2+ players approximately ? Could you please give a range for approximadely R that most boarderline calling hands will fall into as I understad R is affected by the nuttiness / playability of the hand
Hi Ben,
At 28 mins, you mention having to turn some pairs into bluffs because the runout is so good for you that you will run out of bluffing hands. Can you explain why you would choose a large bet size, and turn hands with SD value into bluffs, instead of just decreasing our bet size and putting only unpaired hands in our bluffing region. Great content as always.
Hi Ben, I really cannot say how thankful we are for your great content.
I really appreciate your vids all the time.
I have a question about KQo 24min:
OTR Villian gets like 30% Odds to call so our Range should have 1/3 Bluffingcombos to make his weakest bluffcatcher indifferent I d say.
Our bet has to work about 50% of the time if I am right.
How would look our valuebetrange ? Would you triple here QQ without club ?
I feel like in game I making to many mistaking by having a wrong approach.
Not sure if I should jam QQ or JJ without or w clubs tbh ?
But i d guess you have smth like QQ+AA,5-6Flushes which makes perfect sense to bluff KxQc as we need about 11 bluffingcombos I d say we should bluff all AcJ,AcQ,KxQ,KcQ
I can't watch the video cos of you bouncing around on your chair... seriously what is up with that??
Hes slowly walking, I think its better for posture and concentration.
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