so at 8:40- you debate whether to 5b jam kk or not then say i would shove some aks , wouldnt ako be a better jam and aks fit better into the flattign range?
Given how you run in these there's just no way that the guy in the 3b pot hand doesn't open shove river vs your TT. It's almost poetic in a way at this point.
Enjoy the mixed game content. That last 2-7 hand was hilarious.
My only comment would be that if you make one of these in the future and think you might be dragging some higher stakes tables in at some point, perhaps record the session with more recording space and leave a replayer up that you can then cover with the higher stakes table.
It does get a bit messy when you're overlapping a third table over the 2 zoom ones. It's not a huge deal or anything but thought I'd mention it anyway.
Strategically Im most curious about the AxJd hand I know we only 1/4 potted the flop but I feel I don't see enough bluffs here. (Only obvious flop draw completes and we're facing the guy in the middle in the flop spot). I'll do some work on this once I get home in a few days but for now I'm mostly curious as to what other people think. (When he shoves river my brain is telling me to fold, even though i know our combo is a call.)
Do you think you have a value shoving here!? He has all sets; A2s and 67s gets there, he has QQ. I don't really see him bet/calling worse like ever, maybe sooooometimes with TT or A9s... but I don't know, it looks like a pretty weird shove to me. I'm really interested on your thoughts here.
On a more threatening board in this video, http://www.runitonce.com/poker-training/videos/pio-solver-review-kt-oop-on-j95/, we saw AJ+ jamming river over various sized bets. Maybe it's bad against how people actually play, or this board is different.
Went back and skimmed the other video, input the same ranges into pio to compare. pio cbet the flop on both boards almost always but raised the cbet much more often on J95r than 943r. ~17% vs ~3%
It bets over 70% on the turn so our river continuing range is quite narrow. It seems to almost always call with hands up to QQ vs a half pot bet. Occasionally raising smaller with the tiny slivers of KK/AA that it checked back, preferring KK, because AQo makes up a big part of oop's bluffing range and jamming with 76s, 99 and bluff jamming a small amount of hands that block combos of those 2 hands.
I noticed this in my model too DF. I suppose it's because OOP has very few 9x/4x/3x combinations which aren't sets, and very few other combos that are pushing equity.
The aggression frequency I saw for IP was also pretty out of control on the 943r. Normally, when IP can bet small nearly 100%, OOP responds with more XR in these low SPR spots. This seems to be an exception, perhaps because OOP is so far behind that "slowplaying" a lot of TT+ is necessary to maintain any kind of reasonable defense frequency.
Your consideration to fold AA vs stickman is warranted and possibly the correct despite results. When we hero correctly I like to pay close attention to the combo he chose to bluff for indication of overbluff underbluff tendencies. You mentioned you were worried he would underbluff this spot and seeing this combo doesn't discredit that belief. He has a combo with the highest equity possible vs your main continuing range. Had we seen a more naked pair+86 hand we could confidently conclude it's a profitable call. Cool hand.
I agree Zach, I think it's fairly likely here my river call was losing. I'm looking for hands like 76T9 or A984 before I'm comfortable thinking he's bluffing often.
I felt that way too a little bit but didn't want to read too much into betsizing. I wanted to call on the river even though it's plausibly a spot he could be underbluffing a ton.
At the end when you have AQ on Q23r, 3,6. Villain bluff raise jammed river with Q2dd. You mentioned he had a good bluff hand. Is this the case? Firstly should he have a leading range on river? If so I suppose his no SD hands can lead and this combo checks well because it beats your give ups. But I'd think any Qx is too strong to bluff with. I'd think you wouldnt be doing much folding with AQ+? I'd guess he does better bluff jamming river with some weak draws that planned ahead to float and jam river. Something like A5s A4s which has non 0 SD and Blocks AQ, AA (your call range).
Thoughts?
KJ hand ~35min. You said that you are going to bet QQ+ OTR, but with QQ you have only ~40% of equity versus range of (9x+ and FD's) and seems like bet is pretty bet here. KK has only 53%.
And with KJ here you have ~50% of equity vs somewhat discounted QQ-KK, QJ+, FH+ and since villain may raise with occasional 9x what do you think about playing it safe and xback KJ or maybe betting it smaller, so he's always calling with QQ?
Yea I think it's fairly clear I'm botching a lot of these IP 3b vs EP RFI situations postflop. It's not something I get a lot of training with since I'm playing a lot of shorthanded and hu, and a lot of 8game. I'll try and improve on this in the future.
Liked the video a lot. Thank you sir...question on the qjcc hand at 24:20we 3 bet early position bet small on 943 rainbow check a jack bringing in backdoor spades and then 5 river and jjam over
His bet.
Curious about your
Thought
Process on jamming over his river bet/bluffing ranges on this river. Interesting line and curious about hands your doing this with. Thanks again great video!
I ran this through Pio and got some strange results so maybe I screwed up the inputs somehow. My raise is making more EV as his betting range gets more capped. I suggest playing with this hand in Pio yourself if you're curious about range vs range questions, it seems redundant for me to speculate about my thought process when with minimal effort it's possible to model the situation.
great video. About the KJ hand, i see talked a bit about above, at 35min, i think QQ+ is a bit thin isnt it? You 3b smallish so he is a bit wider but it is CO v HJ. Does he have enough T9s/98s/A9s/ ATss/88 combos (that call the bet) relative to his 99/TT/QJs/KJs/AJs as well as some AA/KK? What do you expect his folding range to be AK/AQ combos? This spot seems tricky to me
Pio seems to think his range just has way too much TT in it. I think he's actually supposed to lead river a bunch here. My model has OOP betting big on river around 30% of the time with mostly TT/99/33 for value along with a lot of T9s/98s/77/88/AsQs type stuff as bluffs. Once OOP has the option to lead big IP bets KK, but not AA/QQ. I think this is because ranges are so narrow here QQ makes up a big part of OOP's 3 street bluffcatching range. I'm not certain why KK gets valuebet, but I think it's because AA blocks A9s which makes up a big part of OOP's possible river XC range and in fact ends up playing a mix vs B (heavily favoring fold).
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Cancel your plans! Cage the dog! Cage the kids! Sauce made a PLO video
so at 8:40- you debate whether to 5b jam kk or not then say i would shove some aks , wouldnt ako be a better jam and aks fit better into the flattign range?
I'm not sure, someday I should do some math on this spot.
yeah , guess couple of hands of plo is a good first step
all plans out the window.
hahaha sauce such a nit in plo,almost got got twice.
after watching the high stakes makes the zoom kind of boring,PLZ switch to the high stakes mixed game,so much fun watching u play mixed game.
Chain Sauce to NLHE for life :D
PLEASE do 8-Game Videos
Given how you run in these there's just no way that the guy in the 3b pot hand doesn't open shove river vs your TT. It's almost poetic in a way at this point.
Enjoy the mixed game content. That last 2-7 hand was hilarious.
My only comment would be that if you make one of these in the future and think you might be dragging some higher stakes tables in at some point, perhaps record the session with more recording space and leave a replayer up that you can then cover with the higher stakes table.
It does get a bit messy when you're overlapping a third table over the 2 zoom ones. It's not a huge deal or anything but thought I'd mention it anyway.
Strategically Im most curious about the AxJd hand I know we only 1/4 potted the flop but I feel I don't see enough bluffs here. (Only obvious flop draw completes and we're facing the guy in the middle in the flop spot). I'll do some work on this once I get home in a few days but for now I'm mostly curious as to what other people think. (When he shoves river my brain is telling me to fold, even though i know our combo is a call.)
timestamp
Hi ben, great video as always.
Min 24, QJcc hand.
Do you think you have a value shoving here!? He has all sets; A2s and 67s gets there, he has QQ. I don't really see him bet/calling worse like ever, maybe sooooometimes with TT or A9s... but I don't know, it looks like a pretty weird shove to me. I'm really interested on your thoughts here.
Thank you!
On a more threatening board in this video, http://www.runitonce.com/poker-training/videos/pio-solver-review-kt-oop-on-j95/, we saw AJ+ jamming river over various sized bets. Maybe it's bad against how people actually play, or this board is different.
Went back and skimmed the other video, input the same ranges into pio to compare. pio cbet the flop on both boards almost always but raised the cbet much more often on J95r than 943r. ~17% vs ~3%
It bets over 70% on the turn so our river continuing range is quite narrow. It seems to almost always call with hands up to QQ vs a half pot bet. Occasionally raising smaller with the tiny slivers of KK/AA that it checked back, preferring KK, because AQo makes up a big part of oop's bluffing range and jamming with 76s, 99 and bluff jamming a small amount of hands that block combos of those 2 hands.
I noticed this in my model too DF. I suppose it's because OOP has very few 9x/4x/3x combinations which aren't sets, and very few other combos that are pushing equity.
The aggression frequency I saw for IP was also pretty out of control on the 943r. Normally, when IP can bet small nearly 100%, OOP responds with more XR in these low SPR spots. This seems to be an exception, perhaps because OOP is so far behind that "slowplaying" a lot of TT+ is necessary to maintain any kind of reasonable defense frequency.
Your consideration to fold AA vs stickman is warranted and possibly the correct despite results. When we hero correctly I like to pay close attention to the combo he chose to bluff for indication of overbluff underbluff tendencies. You mentioned you were worried he would underbluff this spot and seeing this combo doesn't discredit that belief. He has a combo with the highest equity possible vs your main continuing range. Had we seen a more naked pair+86 hand we could confidently conclude it's a profitable call. Cool hand.
I agree Zach, I think it's fairly likely here my river call was losing. I'm looking for hands like 76T9 or A984 before I'm comfortable thinking he's bluffing often.
As I see it, I think stickman is cheating with his sizings... :)
I felt that way too a little bit but didn't want to read too much into betsizing. I wanted to call on the river even though it's plausibly a spot he could be underbluffing a ton.
At the end when you have AQ on Q23r, 3,6. Villain bluff raise jammed river with Q2dd. You mentioned he had a good bluff hand. Is this the case? Firstly should he have a leading range on river? If so I suppose his no SD hands can lead and this combo checks well because it beats your give ups. But I'd think any Qx is too strong to bluff with. I'd think you wouldnt be doing much folding with AQ+? I'd guess he does better bluff jamming river with some weak draws that planned ahead to float and jam river. Something like A5s A4s which has non 0 SD and Blocks AQ, AA (your call range).
Thoughts?
Q2 seems like it's near indifference vs B and blocks Qx and 22 so it's a classic X/shove combo.
Ok. But if his xr is getting called by AQ how successful is the bluff? How many better hands have a fold?
I'm not always calling with AQ, and I think KQ=AA here, aside from blocker effects.
KJ hand ~35min. You said that you are going to bet QQ+ OTR, but with QQ you have only ~40% of equity versus range of (9x+ and FD's) and seems like bet is pretty bet here. KK has only 53%.
And with KJ here you have ~50% of equity vs somewhat discounted QQ-KK, QJ+, FH+ and since villain may raise with occasional 9x what do you think about playing it safe and xback KJ or maybe betting it smaller, so he's always calling with QQ?
Great vid btw! Lots of fun with high stakes there!
Against what range? I suspect the raising range isn't subtracted here.
I left him half of overpairs and half of trips, but kept all the FH OTR.
Yea I think it's fairly clear I'm botching a lot of these IP 3b vs EP RFI situations postflop. It's not something I get a lot of training with since I'm playing a lot of shorthanded and hu, and a lot of 8game. I'll try and improve on this in the future.
Great video once again, Ben. Insightful NLH content, and particularly enjoyed the glimpes of the 8-game stuff.
Fun :)
Liked the video a lot. Thank you sir...question on the qjcc hand at 24:20we 3 bet early position bet small on 943 rainbow check a jack bringing in backdoor spades and then 5 river and jjam over
His bet.
Curious about your
Thought
Process on jamming over his river bet/bluffing ranges on this river. Interesting line and curious about hands your doing this with. Thanks again great video!
I ran this through Pio and got some strange results so maybe I screwed up the inputs somehow. My raise is making more EV as his betting range gets more capped. I suggest playing with this hand in Pio yourself if you're curious about range vs range questions, it seems redundant for me to speculate about my thought process when with minimal effort it's possible to model the situation.
do you defend JTo in the SB vs BU open in min 1:50 only because its daniel negreanu? :)
I think it's a fine defend vs min open?
haha i was just kidding, i just like your joke xD
awful sound, careful with that microphone! love you though, and such a privilege to be able to learn from you
You're right I've been slacking on the sound. Ordered a great new mic
great video. About the KJ hand, i see talked a bit about above, at 35min, i think QQ+ is a bit thin isnt it? You 3b smallish so he is a bit wider but it is CO v HJ. Does he have enough T9s/98s/A9s/ ATss/88 combos (that call the bet) relative to his 99/TT/QJs/KJs/AJs as well as some AA/KK? What do you expect his folding range to be AK/AQ combos? This spot seems tricky to me
Pio seems to think his range just has way too much TT in it. I think he's actually supposed to lead river a bunch here. My model has OOP betting big on river around 30% of the time with mostly TT/99/33 for value along with a lot of T9s/98s/77/88/AsQs type stuff as bluffs. Once OOP has the option to lead big IP bets KK, but not AA/QQ. I think this is because ranges are so narrow here QQ makes up a big part of OOP's 3 street bluffcatching range. I'm not certain why KK gets valuebet, but I think it's because AA blocks A9s which makes up a big part of OOP's possible river XC range and in fact ends up playing a mix vs B (heavily favoring fold).
super helpful response. I really appreciate that
Enjoy this content more 8 game would be awesome.
Thanks
"This is like a torture device built for me."
Oh, how well I know that feeling...
30:09 top; what is the worst hand you would defend here?
32:24 I like this line... what would be the worst hand you would value bet in this spot?
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