Hi Joni, @ 13:52: You elect to x/f QQT3 on AJ7r 7c turn BvB as the limp/caller. Do you think there is merit in x/r this spot with this hand? Villain is likely to be light in all FH combos and may not even have a ton of Axcc depending on his cbet frequency on this board texture. We certainly can have all of those combos in our l/c range as well as plenty of good 7x which will probably need to be in both ranges OTT, but should be able to x/r here relatively thinly. This particular hand should retain it's equity somewhat well against the 7x combos he does have along with folding out the Ax he does have here at a high frequency. Did you feel that this combo was to weak and if so, which would you select instead? Thanks!
Hi, Just wanted to add a few thoughts. We cant have many boats as we don't have AAxx or good JJxx while villain can and could slow play some of these on the flop. I don't see a great reason to attack this board texture/situation unless his delayed cbet range is unbalanced towards air. We do have a good amount of showdown so like Joni said he wouldn't mind calling with this hand sometimes. I would also be interested to hear what Joni thinks about this spot and villains range?
It might benefit your thought process to consider actual range distributions and combinatorics in this spot rather than just being fearful that someone may have slow played the nuts.
I did not mean my post to come across offensively or that I was fearing the nuts here a high percentage of the time. Just that his range seems stronger and our range was void of some full houses. I assumed the BB had a fairly good range advantage on this flop. Am I wrong in this asssumption? I believe a lot of ppl very liberally raise sb limps in the bb but I would still consider BB range to be stronger on this flop. In regards to considering combinatorics I'll be honest I know very little, but I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about it in this situation? Also, I was wondering why you think this hand is a good candidate to x/r? I would of thought something like JT9x, 998x and T98x would be better.
You're not wrong that BB had a range advantage OTF, but you are failing to account for how that range advantage dissipates once he checks back. JT9 seems like a plausible x/r hand as well, but it also fails to make the nuts on any runout and thus will have a difficult time value betting when it hits. 998 is essentially the same hand as QQT (except for losing to the occasional JJ when it boats up) so if we are x/r bluffing 998 we probably need to continue QQT in some way. T98 never makes the nuts, has no meaninful blockers and will often get us "coolered" when we do make a straight OTR. Hope that helps.
We aren't trying 'to make the nuts' with T98x combos I mentioned that hand because it is not a profitable x/c but still has outs vs Axxx and no showdown value.
QQT3 seems to high up in our range to want to x/r bluff with it.
Reasons to not x/r -
It doesn't need much protection from random stabs.
It has good showdown value.
We are repping a thin range post flop as we capped our range pre flop.
He's unlikely to fold better with the exception of bare KKxx (which mite not bet here).
He's likely to bet his air on this flop hence strengthening his delayed cbet range and weighting it towards monsters/showdown hands rather than air/bare straight draws.
Joni's stack is short enough that he will always get stacks when its some type of a cooler compared to if he was 100bbs effective so there is less incentive to bet all AAxx JJxx combos on the flop.
We have better x/r candidates like 9864cc with equity but no showdown value and 6544cc which benefit from his air folding and also has some equity vs his b/c range.
We have a fold button.
Reasons to x/r -
Villain checking this flop in general takes some nut combos out his range.
I can 100% get behind x/calling but x/raising seems unbalanced and a waste of this hand.
Loading 7 Comments...
Hi Joni, @ 13:52: You elect to x/f QQT3 on AJ7r 7c turn BvB as the limp/caller. Do you think there is merit in x/r this spot with this hand? Villain is likely to be light in all FH combos and may not even have a ton of Axcc depending on his cbet frequency on this board texture. We certainly can have all of those combos in our l/c range as well as plenty of good 7x which will probably need to be in both ranges OTT, but should be able to x/r here relatively thinly. This particular hand should retain it's equity somewhat well against the 7x combos he does have along with folding out the Ax he does have here at a high frequency. Did you feel that this combo was to weak and if so, which would you select instead? Thanks!
Hi, Just wanted to add a few thoughts. We cant have many boats as we don't have AAxx or good JJxx while villain can and could slow play some of these on the flop. I don't see a great reason to attack this board texture/situation unless his delayed cbet range is unbalanced towards air. We do have a good amount of showdown so like Joni said he wouldn't mind calling with this hand sometimes. I would also be interested to hear what Joni thinks about this spot and villains range?
It might benefit your thought process to consider actual range distributions and combinatorics in this spot rather than just being fearful that someone may have slow played the nuts.
I did not mean my post to come across offensively or that I was fearing the nuts here a high percentage of the time. Just that his range seems stronger and our range was void of some full houses. I assumed the BB had a fairly good range advantage on this flop. Am I wrong in this asssumption? I believe a lot of ppl very liberally raise sb limps in the bb but I would still consider BB range to be stronger on this flop. In regards to considering combinatorics I'll be honest I know very little, but I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about it in this situation? Also, I was wondering why you think this hand is a good candidate to x/r? I would of thought something like JT9x, 998x and T98x would be better.
You're not wrong that BB had a range advantage OTF, but you are failing to account for how that range advantage dissipates once he checks back. JT9 seems like a plausible x/r hand as well, but it also fails to make the nuts on any runout and thus will have a difficult time value betting when it hits. 998 is essentially the same hand as QQT (except for losing to the occasional JJ when it boats up) so if we are x/r bluffing 998 we probably need to continue QQT in some way. T98 never makes the nuts, has no meaninful blockers and will often get us "coolered" when we do make a straight OTR. Hope that helps.
We aren't trying 'to make the nuts' with T98x combos I mentioned that hand because it is not a profitable x/c but still has outs vs Axxx and no showdown value.
QQT3 seems to high up in our range to want to x/r bluff with it.
Reasons to not x/r -
It doesn't need much protection from random stabs.
It has good showdown value.
We are repping a thin range post flop as we capped our range pre flop.
He's unlikely to fold better with the exception of bare KKxx (which mite not bet here).
He's likely to bet his air on this flop hence strengthening his delayed cbet range and weighting it towards monsters/showdown hands rather than air/bare straight draws.
Joni's stack is short enough that he will always get stacks when its some type of a cooler compared to if he was 100bbs effective so there is less incentive to bet all AAxx JJxx combos on the flop.
We have better x/r candidates like 9864cc with equity but no showdown value and 6544cc which benefit from his air folding and also has some equity vs his b/c range.
We have a fold button.
Reasons to x/r -
Villain checking this flop in general takes some nut combos out his range.
I can 100% get behind x/calling but x/raising seems unbalanced and a waste of this hand.
Am I the only one who just can't stand the ''word'' checkbacking ? :D
Be the first to add a comment
You must upgrade your account to leave a comment.