$2.50/$5 NLHE Two Tables Session Review (part 2)
Posted by Tyler Forrester
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17 min w/ JJ
Is it a clear bet/call on the flop for you ? (you pretty much snapped him off)
Given that we have the Jh and that he will have some slowplays and ofc the set of nines and tens that mostly play this way, and that 87ss or QJ are unlikely to fastplay this way, im not sure how i feel about calling the flop shove.
I see your point, but I also have likely 80%+ equity against his range on the flop, so he basically has to be a nit for me to fold this hand.
He may not always shove 87ss, KQ, top pair, or a flush draw, but he only has to shove them each a small subsection of the time for calling to be better than folding.
Again there are some players that fall into the category of only shoving QQ+ on this board texture, but I'm not going to assume this readless.
You have 80% equity vs his calling range preflop, but what is your equity vs his range when he shoves ?
It's difficult to know because we need to make a lot of assumptions about how he will play his asxhh but i think that on the flop you are only facing a nutted range of nut fd/sets/ovp and rare straight draws/Ahx/.
I am not necessarily advocating a bet/fold on the flop, i just say that the spot seems very close, esp with your blockers. But anyway, i guess that you have the required amount of equity when you bet and he shoves for the call to be ev+.
I think the difference is I'm not willing to give credit to some guy who I've played 50 hands against. I'm really not against folding with more info, but I'm not jumping up and down to fold overpairs on the flop for a potsize raise readless.
In retrospect i see myself being a bit result oriented and i guess the hand is pretty standard as he will have various stuff occasionnaly like you said :"He may not always shove 87ss, KQ, top pair, or a flush draw, but he only has to shove them each a small subsection of the time for calling to be better than folding."
Hi Tyler, nice video.
About the JJ hand, is there a chance you might be overestimating the amount of worse hands he could show up with ?
If we give him a range of TT-99,55,AdAh,AhAs,AhAc,KdKh,KhKs,KhKc,AhQh,KhQh,QsJs,AhTh,KhTh,QhTh,8h7h,8s7s,7h6h,Ah5h,Ah4h,Ah3h, we have slightly better then a BE call.
However, if we cut out QsJs,8h7h,8s7s,7h6h,Ah5h,Ah4h,Ah3h from his range, our equity drops down significantly, even if we he only flats 1/2 of AA combos and shoves KK 100%, as i think his 4b calling range is mostly gonna be some traps, suited broadways, pp`s and AT-AQs,AQo almost exclusively.
So we basically need him to either have all of those in his 4b calling range and shove flop 100%, or show up with a random 77/88 spazz shove to justify calling which might be a slightly ambitious assumption.
Hi Prince,
I sat down to model this hand and realized that I didn't have a clue to how this guy might play in 4-bet pot. If he plays tight and assumes we always have JJ+ and never fold it to the shove, then the range he shoves will beat me. If he is irritated and loose, then I'm well ahead of shoving range. Trying to distinguish between these two players readless is virtually impossible, so I default to an equity argument. I'm not folding any hand that is good 9 out of 10 times (absolute strength, not equity) against a tighish defending range. I lose my stack the 1/10 of the time I'm behind against the nit. This is offset when I win a stack 4 out of 5 times against the maniac. I think if we combine the chances of facing one of these two player type that I will come out ahead in the long run.
Side Note: Katya_18 shoved JTs on a T84o board after calling a 4-bet from the SB in the last Sauce123 video. Its evidence that even the best players in the world can show up with top pair here.
Was that the hand vs Ben or Ginmay? I watched the video, but cant remember correctly. I think she had a backdoor flush draw though, so along with blockers probably fits into her range as a semi bluff. Cant really draw any parallels between one of the best NL 6m players and someone who seems to be a weaker reg.
But yeah, we can`t really make multiple assumptions without some of them being incorrect i guess.
It was against a cold 4-bet by Tim0thee and JT had no backdoor flush draw. Unfortunatey, I can't rule out that sort of play by villain in this hand, so I'm going to lose my stack when he's flopped a set or slowplayed AAs.
@ 4:23 w/ 66 against Alexzz...
Can we xr aginst him without any blockers..given tht he chkd back flop..
His range is mostly capped @ weak Ax..assuming he cbets AK,AJ most of the time..
I'm readless and he could be playing tricky to take advantage of your assumptions. If we c/r 66 here, he is incentivized to check back every nut hand and win 50bbs when we have less than 2nd pair.
at 9min, you said that you disagree in retrospect with your cbet here.
Let's say you have JTss, so now you have a backdoor fd, how do you feel about cbetting now ?
Hi julien,
Obviously the backdoor flush draw gives us more equity/more barreling cards, so it should make a better cbet. I'm going to take a deeper look at this hand in an upcoming video. Its actually complicated and interesting.
yea about that, shouldn't you also factor in that J9 T9 98 T8 all fold (and he all those off suit combos) and enough tho ur ahead of them, they turn often a card where they bluff you off. You're not gunna check down and win with J high as they wud be bluffing this as the bottom of their range so isn't it irrelevant u have them beat? (I mean other then if u check and u both turn pair u win 1-2 bets)
Hey FiveBet,
Occassionally people will check down T high on this board. Obviously its small part of their range and they often bluff with it, but occasionally I will still win with jack-high. The issue I was having in the video and something I'm going to devote time in my next video is that its seems like its a very small part of their range on this board texture. Its very hard to have a hand that's not bws or a gutshot or better. I'm curious how many hands my cbet strategy folds here if they chose a strategy where they'd don't fold K-high or QJ type hands. The board texture has some unique characteristics that don't often come up in game.
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