Yeah it is pretty tough for sure. I wish I could play it live more often. I used to host a nice 10/25 PLO/PLO8 game that went for a couple years but they never last forever.
Yeah first time I get to see PLO8 content ever...good job!
Wondering about PLO8 HU preflop play:
You openfold quite a lot in the SB even though the BB only VPIPs 50-60% (didnt see the position stats but I guess he plays more hands in the SB than BB)
First example: min 4:40 KsJh7c4d
PPT says top 70% hand HU...with probably poorer playability than many hands in this region.
Still:
Say he 3bets 25% -> you fold
He defend calls his 25%-70% (quite generous estimate) hands
Folds 30%
You have 45% equity against his calling range and need to realize 75% of your equity for EV 0
Being IP and considering that he 3bets a lot of his strong hands this should be possible even with this crappy hand.
In the SB i play PLO8 similar to PLO...opening 85-95% against most opponents (not 3bet more than ~30% or defend more than say 70-75%)
Is this a good strategy or am I underestimating that position in PLO8 is often worth less because one side hands can barrel relentlessly and dont let me realize the 70-80% of equity of my crappy hands even IP.
This video was from quite a while ago so i can't recall what PF strategy I was employing. That said, its quite possible I was playing too tight. I think the best strategy is to have a limp and a raise range along with a small but non zero folding range.
Position is less important, and nut potential to either half becomes more important for equity realization in PLO8.
I know this is an older video but it's pretty solid especially as it pertains to HU PLO8 which I think is the least known game for strategy since it's such a rarity to be played live. I'm curious when you talked about the math on your outs, where you were using a shortcut- you said 8 clean outs for high and 16 for low, which you cut in half? What exactly was that equation and what for? Or if someone else wants to explain it for me? Thanks in advance.
Let's say I have As-5s-7h-7d (2 spades in hand) Opponent has 4d-4h-9d-Kc (dry set of 4's, backdoor diamonds) on a flop of Qd-4s-3s. Feel free to put the info into an odds calculator now if it's too hard to follow/visualize just by reading it////Anyway, I know I have a monster hand here and I know some would argue I should be giving away one of my kidneys to draw at it as well (LOL)...BUT!!- I want to get a more simplified exact way to think about odds and outs on the spot (since quick math isn't my strongest quality) and a better way to process/think about Hi-Lo hands like this in general, whether they be a problem with this many variables or a much simpler example. Mixed games seem tougher to process in general. Below are the outs for my hand listed above and what I've counted to get at least half, or HOPEFULLY scoop:
(For the High)-Eight spades for the flush (eliminating the Qs which gives him a boat)
-Three remaining 6's for the straight (since the 6s has already been counted)
-One remaining 7 to hit the higher set (since the 7s also makes the flush for me and has already been counted)
(For the Low) -Any non-pairing card 8 or less (spades partially excluded) gives me the low half of the pot. (Remaining: 28s & A258 all other suits)...I see 12 outs for the high, and 14 low outs. How should I quantify this? I know the example might seem extreme but I think it's also just a good exercise in trying to learn more. I figure if you can complete the toughest examples, everything else should be easier.
Anyway, how do I figure out my overall equity here? How does one merge the high and low equities to get a more realistic view of what they're likely to win? And how does a good pro calculate outs here so easily/so fast? I have a very hard time with situations like this and I feel like I'm bound to screw up or double count outs in real time. Could someone give me a much better method of doing this that isn't so messy and time consuming? Hi/Lo games seem BRUTAL for this reason in terms of tracking outs and figuring out what your percentages are. I'm looking for a simpler way of doing these equations/calculations in split pot games. I know the 4x/2x rule for hold'em but I'm curious if the formula is also correct for PLO8 (with the low side also being in play too)? And also I don't think I should be describing it to people as "26 outs twice" since some cards only give me a chop?
And finally, relating to my previous comments and what Zach did here in the video before just saying (paraphrasing- Table 2 @ 33:20 into video ) "I won't go into the math here but the guy has a ton of outs, etc"- Do I just chop my low outs in half then and add them to my high outs? Why did he do that?/How does that work? I was wondering where he got that from in the video? Thanks for anyone who takes this on. I know it's a huge amount to digest and I hope I didn't clutter it too poorly. I'm just trying to find simpler methods to do math in real time and improve the weaker areas of my game. Even less complicated examples for me can take a bit if I'm playing online and have a short time bank to complete it. I ultimately just end up getting frustrated here and (sadly) just end up feeling stupid/unworthy for not being able to do math faster/better. Thanks for taking the time to read & any help is greatly appreciated.
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love O8 but for U.S. players its borderline impossible to find a game live or online =(
Yeah it is pretty tough for sure. I wish I could play it live more often. I used to host a nice 10/25 PLO/PLO8 game that went for a couple years but they never last forever.
Bovada usually has games going up to 5/10
Winning
Nice vid, need more to understand the game better tho :)
cool vid, but would be nice if u use 4 volour deck :-)
Okay I will use that next time thanks
"I only had this table up because I didn't know it was NLO8"
Accidentally registering for PLO and NLO8 tourneys *oops misclick* is so painful -sigh-
More PLO8 videos please!
Yeah first time I get to see PLO8 content ever...good job!
Wondering about PLO8 HU preflop play:
You openfold quite a lot in the SB even though the BB only VPIPs 50-60% (didnt see the position stats but I guess he plays more hands in the SB than BB)
First example: min 4:40 KsJh7c4d
PPT says top 70% hand HU...with probably poorer playability than many hands in this region.
Still:
Say he 3bets 25% -> you fold
He defend calls his 25%-70% (quite generous estimate) hands
Folds 30%
You have 45% equity against his calling range and need to realize 75% of your equity for EV 0
Being IP and considering that he 3bets a lot of his strong hands this should be possible even with this crappy hand.
In the SB i play PLO8 similar to PLO...opening 85-95% against most opponents (not 3bet more than ~30% or defend more than say 70-75%)
Is this a good strategy or am I underestimating that position in PLO8 is often worth less because one side hands can barrel relentlessly and dont let me realize the 70-80% of equity of my crappy hands even IP.
This video was from quite a while ago so i can't recall what PF strategy I was employing. That said, its quite possible I was playing too tight. I think the best strategy is to have a limp and a raise range along with a small but non zero folding range.
Position is less important, and nut potential to either half becomes more important for equity realization in PLO8.
I know this is an older video but it's pretty solid especially as it pertains to HU PLO8 which I think is the least known game for strategy since it's such a rarity to be played live. I'm curious when you talked about the math on your outs, where you were using a shortcut- you said 8 clean outs for high and 16 for low, which you cut in half? What exactly was that equation and what for? Or if someone else wants to explain it for me? Thanks in advance.
Let's say I have As-5s-7h-7d (2 spades in hand) Opponent has 4d-4h-9d-Kc (dry set of 4's, backdoor diamonds) on a flop of Qd-4s-3s. Feel free to put the info into an odds calculator now if it's too hard to follow/visualize just by reading it////Anyway, I know I have a monster hand here and I know some would argue I should be giving away one of my kidneys to draw at it as well (LOL)...BUT!!- I want to get a more simplified exact way to think about odds and outs on the spot (since quick math isn't my strongest quality) and a better way to process/think about Hi-Lo hands like this in general, whether they be a problem with this many variables or a much simpler example. Mixed games seem tougher to process in general. Below are the outs for my hand listed above and what I've counted to get at least half, or HOPEFULLY scoop:
(For the High)-Eight spades for the flush (eliminating the Qs which gives him a boat)
-Three remaining 6's for the straight (since the 6s has already been counted)
-One remaining 7 to hit the higher set (since the 7s also makes the flush for me and has already been counted)
(For the Low) -Any non-pairing card 8 or less (spades partially excluded) gives me the low half of the pot. (Remaining: 28s & A258 all other suits)...I see 12 outs for the high, and 14 low outs. How should I quantify this? I know the example might seem extreme but I think it's also just a good exercise in trying to learn more. I figure if you can complete the toughest examples, everything else should be easier.
Anyway, how do I figure out my overall equity here? How does one merge the high and low equities to get a more realistic view of what they're likely to win? And how does a good pro calculate outs here so easily/so fast? I have a very hard time with situations like this and I feel like I'm bound to screw up or double count outs in real time. Could someone give me a much better method of doing this that isn't so messy and time consuming? Hi/Lo games seem BRUTAL for this reason in terms of tracking outs and figuring out what your percentages are. I'm looking for a simpler way of doing these equations/calculations in split pot games. I know the 4x/2x rule for hold'em but I'm curious if the formula is also correct for PLO8 (with the low side also being in play too)? And also I don't think I should be describing it to people as "26 outs twice" since some cards only give me a chop?
And finally, relating to my previous comments and what Zach did here in the video before just saying (paraphrasing- Table 2 @ 33:20 into video ) "I won't go into the math here but the guy has a ton of outs, etc"- Do I just chop my low outs in half then and add them to my high outs? Why did he do that?/How does that work? I was wondering where he got that from in the video? Thanks for anyone who takes this on. I know it's a huge amount to digest and I hope I didn't clutter it too poorly. I'm just trying to find simpler methods to do math in real time and improve the weaker areas of my game. Even less complicated examples for me can take a bit if I'm playing online and have a short time bank to complete it. I ultimately just end up getting frustrated here and (sadly) just end up feeling stupid/unworthy for not being able to do math faster/better. Thanks for taking the time to read & any help is greatly appreciated.
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