2 Table $5/$10 HU Vs KnightDaBest (part 1)
Posted by Sauce123
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Hey. You 3bet 99 @ 17:40. I was surprised you even went into discussion about this. You think this is a marginal spot but ive seen you 3bet 66 77 88 in previous heads up videos. The 66 was 25/50 ante.
Sorry- It was the video where you were playing 6max and on one table were heads up @25/50. You 3bet 66 and said somthing like we have a pair hes calling alot so lets get value.
ty ben
you shoulda pee before making this video .... :)
really enjoyed the pace and all the details , gonna love that series .... tx
this^
Great video as always, loved it.
@ 14:07 you get the exact same 63o on the btn on both tables at the same time. You fold one and raise the other. Why?? O_O
It takes a lot of luck to make a good hand with 63o. It would take too much luck to do it twice.
@10:00 you hit 2 pairs OTR and raise his bet, what would you do if he 3bets big? His range is still uncapped because turn was A and I guess he is going to check that card a lot, so he will have hands that wanted to x/r turn, basically all small sets, A5, A6, A4, 78 etc while to of your range is ( I guess) 44? so he can raise big and put you in tough spot, what would you do vs big raise?
My river raising range here is mostly 64/A4/K4/44, and a little 32 for value. He can't make a big 3b with 2pair here. There just are not enough combos of bigger sets and straights for me to worry about, and all of those combos play differently on earlier streets some % of the time. If he does 3b me, I'll usually fold this combo, but occasionally call. I don't think it's a problem to have a raising range here because my raising freq will be quite low, which means that villain will not be incentivized to play his nut hands to this line more than another line.
I don't suppose you'll answer this (because I wouldn't if I were you), but aren't you a little worried that the frequent c-betting strategy actually loses value with the hands which you would rather bet bigger? It just seems like it comes very close to violating one of the fundamental principles of game theory. Would you say that's an error in implementing the strategy if it happens, and not an error in the strategy itself?
It depends how often they raise a small cbet versus raise a larger bet.
It seems like they can just raise (most of) the hands they would've called down with anyways, and now they get to add in bluffs. I guess you think that the EV they gain from doing that is countered by the EV that you gain from denying equity with hands that you don't want to check?
In keeping with this, an opponent will certainly fold better hands very rarely.
This seems like a strategy that works better against humans than it should.
Most of the EV we lose betting smaller with stronger hands is made up for by balancing those hands with medium strength vbets and bluffs. This is especially true when protection is important, which it is in hu nlhe.
I was wondering, about those delay cbet also double delay bets you do with top pair weak kicker:
the fact you are deep with your stack as an effect on this strategy, would you concider cbetting flop right away if you were 15 or 20 bb deep ?
No one gunna talk about the treadmill?
why? I mostly look at the tables anyway, and also, as a poker player who is tired of sitting all day I am considdering to get one my self. Maybe it will be a crosstrainer for me though
the A2 hand towards the end at 40ish min mark...
I like leading w his range there on river OP bc you most likely dont have 89 and not many 8x compared to him. his 6x is not really as show downable as it appears and you have a lot of Ax and weak pairs. Leading for him becomes especially important if he calls w j high on turn there. What do you think?
Daniel,
Well, I'm not sure exactly how many 8x we each have, but I think it's likely that we each have a fairly similar amount of straights. The cards that cluster around mid pair tend to be fairly good for OOP in this situation, so it wouldn't surprise me if his range was strong enough to add some leads. If he leads 6< though, that will be too many bluffs and his X range will be too capped, just because there are so many combos of 6x/5x and 4x. If he does decide to lead, it'll be with exactly 4x balanced with some straights.
@31:00
When you opt to call 79o on the turn, aren't you concerned that the board is a bit draw heavy? Meaning that you won't get to raise clubs & paired rivers and also lose out some value against made hands that would bet-call turn but check-fold on bad rivers? Also I would've raised 79 here for the 9% gutter freeroll and opted to slowplay another 7x instead. (I don't think we get otherwise stacks in with this SPR on an 8 river.)
Also, when you take the call turn/raise river line, what hands would you bluff on the river? 89 would be my obvious guess? Personally, I think I'm often too unbalanced to take this line.
(Would you c-bet 78o on the flop 100% because you want to potentially build a 3-street game vs another 7x when turn is a 6? Hence meaning that your range is capped to 7-high straights on the turn.)
I agree with you that in hindsight I should prob cb the 79 and 87 stuff just because they're so nutty when they hit their key card, and xb a few 7x like T7-Q7 or something. To be honest, unless the guy is XR a lot, betting 7x is generally just going to be good because it always turns pretty solid equity. I wanted to just make the point in the video that it's prob exploitable to always bet 7x because on turns that complete the straight we're vulnerable to overbets, and I'm assuming we X other bluffcatchers as well that need to realize equity.
I think raise bluffing river is actually a fairly strong play. It clearly reps 7x, and the bettor usually has most combos of 2x, most combos of 7x, and some bluffs. So if he folds some % of 2x the play ends up doing OK.
i like to watch ben at high speed and imagine him burning 1.5x the calories
38' that 22h hand. After he checks back the flop QQ5b and the turn is a 9 I think it's pretty clear he'll be having A high a lot. I'd say most ppl would CBet nearly 100% of their complete air, and thus hardly ever bluff (or bet whatsoever) the turn.
What about betting the turn for value / protection, given that he well not be giving action with hands like As4h if you check ?
I'm kinda bad at figuring out what ppl will do, but good at playing fairly balanced. If you think that your opponent is almost never betting, and has a lot of hands with equity and/or sd value, then a fairly robust counter will be to bet tons of stuff for lots of different sizes, and def do some protection betting. So, if he plays like you think he plays then I should have made a 1/3-2/3 psb with 22.
Hercules Hercules... he so strong
hey ben, great video! min 34.50 Q5o left side, what's your plan when being check/raised, do we ever have Ax here? How does our delayed cbet range on this kind of board usually looks like?
Great video with great explanations. Given the pace you are going here, this series seems like it should be pretty long. I just wanted to chime in and say that although I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy this (myself included), it's still just another hand replay style video, which a lot of other coaches are capable of making as well. I'm not sure if you plan to do this series back to back to back, but I'd like to see you do more toy game, theory type videos, as opposed to this, as those are just rarer in general and not everyone can make them. I hope you can/plan to interspace them.
Hey Ben,
I've recently come to understand that we don't necessarily need 50%+ equity with a holding vs villains range to valuebet, given that hands within the range of 40-50% equity gain significantly by making villain fold holdings that have 10-30% equity, this is obviously board texture dependant etc. Do you agree with this, how drastically would you say it changes from flop to turn and how far would you go with stuff like this in game, given that we will usually still want to balance a variety of ranges vs competent opponents, and making our betting range too thin value (and we can bluff more i guess) heavy leaves our checking range increasingly weak as well as opens us up to getting raised.
Or do you just not really think about it like this at all and have a more polarized/simpler approach, I feel like that's something that you might have started to change recently in your game from the little that I can see - making smaller bets and doing so more often, rather than splitting your ranges clearly at certain thresholds or so. Any elaboration is welcome, I understand if you don't want to go too in depth with this but some insight would certainly be helpful !
Hey d0zer,
Great points, but this is too big of a subject to cover. I'll give you a couple of things to think about. For one thing, in nlhe, hands aren't distributed in a consistent way, they clump at various hand classes: so for example [sets]>>>>>>>[TP]>>>[MP], etc. And the properties hand class vs hand class change in various situations as well, for instance SET vs TP is basically drawing dead, and pair vs pair is around 85:15, and pair vs draws vary a lot (and the freq of hand classes vary as well). One thing is that, especially when we consider EV, high card vs high card matchups run pretty close, and when we bet small on the flop the high card hands are in play a lot more often making protection more important.
Oh and in my post I obviously meant in pre-river situations
really really awesome series. good opponent for video's sake and good pace. keep it up :)
where you going like that ?
Really excellent analysis all the way through the video, looking forward to the rest of the series mate!
While I understand that it's easier for you to play when you bet a very large % of your range as a small bet, is there any other reason why you think this is the highest way to play a hand. Dont you think it's easy for your opponent to exploit you by starting to raise the flop thinnly and betting small with 100% of his range when checked to as you'll be check-folding 100% of the time?
What kind of program is this you're using to see your stacks in big red font BB-s?
Table ninja
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/saucefoldlolqcxljfzs1k.png
is this part of a mixed strategy? gave me a chuckle because you got those hands dealt at the same time....great video!! :)
are you walking in place this entire video
32:43 how would you react vs a shove on the river? I think you mentioned you are cbetting most of your 78 hands on the flop so you don't have a lot of them right? Should Villain be "demibluffing" all his 7x all together with his 78 combos in order to put you in a tough spot? I think the demi bluff can bepretty efficient here.
Can you manage to do one part by running? I'm serious.
+1 to santaur's Q regarding how vulnerable we become in the checking line. If we unpolarize the c-bet range with the small bet sizing and protect it with most of our premiums, it seems hard to prevent villain from exploiting our checks. Can you talk about how you would protect against villain potentially having too much EV with his TP / bluffs after we check to him?
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