Excellent video Paul, would love to see more of these as opposed to going through a hand replayer. For me personally these videos where the whole session has been put up would help my game more so I can see the more frequent spots that come up , like smaller pots which I think will help my "red line " game. I think using a hand replayer type of video will just concentrate on the bigger pots won or lost as you stated.
I'm glad you agree. If I do decide to make a replayer video it will definitely not ignore smaller pots. Stealing a page out of Tyler Forrester's book, I could filter for a certain spot and go through every hand that comes up. IIRC, he recently had a terrific video filtered for 3b pots where he went through even the mundane flop x/f (which is a good thing for someone like you or me).
I think it's great that you've got a specific aspect of your game in mind that you're trying to improve. Having this kind of awareness or reflection makes the process of getting better much easier. As a precaution, just be wary of not letting your red-line affect your decisions in-game. When you review your sessions later, I encourage you to go back and look for spots where you could've made thin value bets. In my opinion, this is significantly overlooked in favour of bluffing/hero calling spots when considering NSDW. Just make sure you're not making bad hero calls/bluffs in game for the sake of your red-line. This might be something I discuss in a video later on (not quite yet though, since I'm still working on this myself).
Really like your explanation , you r not skiping "standard" spots that are not standard for a lot of ppl , different style is very appreciated . I'd like to see some more of this !! no problem at all on slower pace , i think its a +++ thing
I think your point about what one person considers standard might be foreign to another is paramount. Identifying these discrepancies has helped me uncover fundamental flaws in my own game. It's probably my favourite thing when watching videos to find spots where really good players do the polar opposite of what I might; and then for them to call it "standard". Often times it can mean that I had/have a theoretical issue somewhere in my thought process for that hand.
Hey guys, I just want to point out that I misspoke around 6:30 when talking about the KQ hand. I meant to say that a "large SPR" is advantageous for me if I have a skill edge, not a "small SPR".
Good video some really content, only thing is which I've noticed some other coaches do is have 'standard 3 betting hands ' and always 3 bet them in the same spots, as for example the KQo 3 bet in the co from the utg open is always explained as a good hand to use for its blockers but I think should only be used to exploit a wide utg opening range. It's a small thing but really frustrates me when coaches do this, as telling players to 3 bet KQo against utg opens has to be a -EV play.
I agree that our decision with KQo CO vs UTG should be quite player dependent. However, I'm reluctant to agree that KQo has to be a -EV 3b against the average opponent. This is a fairly difficult thing to determine. Furthermore, it depends on what the average UTG range looks like in your player pool. I find the average reg opens ~18%, against which I think we can profit from at least sometimes 3betting KQo from the CO. If you find that this number is significantly lower for your opponents, then you should certainly just fold.
I agree the slower pace and concentration on standard spots are not a detriment. Also, player reads and population reads clearly change what's 'standard.' And I agree that replayer videos can misrepresent the frequency at which certain spots come up. So more of this at 25-100nl would be welcome.
With TT hand, do you really flat as wide of a range OOP vs unknown regs MP vs CO as you put in PIO? As you said most regs would 3bet sparingly vs MP/EP, will flatting with smallest pairs (that I don't even open MP) OOP be profitable thing to do? Or did PIO came up with these ranges and I'm an idiot? ^^
I do tend to do more than my fair share of flatting against 3bets, both IP and OOP. As for the small pairs, it's extremely marginal either way -- and I'm fine with just folding too. Pio did not create these ranges.
Do you have a good winrate(small loss rate) from the BB as you seem to be a lot looser than ishter/others. Do you think flatting 76o BB vs 3x CO is better than folding in the log run since you're not going to flop much equity often. K4o vs a CO in the BB seems like an easy fold, no? Maybe i'm too tight in the BB vs CO but those hands are snap folds to me in most situations.
both spots are very marginal and are reasonable folds. I haven't got a way to know for certain which hands are +EV defends. With these cuspy sort of hands, there's a few key factors that should sway my decisions heavily:
rake: this is why I said should. I admittedly struggle with this, and am possibly defending too wide when playing 50nl. However, I don't think I'm too out of line.
skill edge: I loosen up a decent bit if I think I have a significant edge, but I'm also happy to tighten up against good regulars.
open size: IMO this is the one a lot of players mess up. Our defending ranges change quite significantly against a BTN 3x as opposed to a 2x for example.
I think my WR from the BB was around -30bb/100, though I could be way off. For the majority of that sample I played quite a bit tighter from the BB though, so it's not the best indicator.
Would like to see a replayer video where you discuss a certain topic (personally I would love to see 3bet pots as the 3bettor OOP) and like you mention go over all pots and not just the ones that get to the river
I'll keep this in mind for the future. Unfortunately, I lost my entire database (for the 2nd time in 2.5 years) either right before, or right after this video. Therefore I cannot do a filtered replayer video like this quite yet.
at 24:44, where you check the TT hand in PIOsolver you talk about the solution PIO gives and about the betsizing used by villain and the optimal bet size which might be different. I just started using PIOsolver and am really curious how to find the 'optimal' bet size. Is it just a matter of trial and error or is there a more systematic approach to find out what the optimal betsize should be?
what I like to do is input two different bet sizings and just see which one Pio likes to use most. Often times it'll use mixed frequencies, in which case I lean towards the one used more often (and not split my range the way Pio might suggest). There may be a more sophisticated way to do this that I'm unaware of. For now however, I'm bounded by trial and error.
Hey, thanks for video, that was interesting. Do you use any popups? I would like to see hand review using replayer with 3Bet pots, defend blinds with wider range (as I saw and I think you defend wider, like K5o vs CO or 76o) how you deal postflop vs multiple barrels or tough boards. Waiting for new videos, thanks again :)
All of those filters that you mention sound like excellent ideas. No doubt I'll refer back to them in the future when I make a replayer video. Like I mentioned in a post above, it's unfortunately just not a viable option at the moment. Currently the only purpose I have for a replayer would be to slow down the pace even more.
Great video. Really enjoyed it. Could you possibly just go over defending in the BB and rake at 50nl zoom? I like defending my BB a lot, I am just unsure as to how wide is profitable assuming I have a decent edge
as I mentioned, I'm not the person to ask about rake considerations. Sorry that I cannot be of more help. If in the future I feel more qualified to answer this, I certainly will mention it in a later video or comment.
QQx 15:22. Yes we have more Qx but I think your reasoning is not valid. Why would you want to raise against a polarized betting range? I reasoned that the bb has a polarized betting range because you have more Qx, and game theory speaking the polarized range should do the betting and the merged range the calling, see toy games etc. I did put everything into Pio and with the sizing you use it only like never raises flops in this spot.
So my question is this: if you are raising flop because you are exploiting a player tendency here, what are you exploiting? Do you think the player pool c-bets pairs at too high of a frequency here? Bluffs betting at too high of a frequency range wise? Or am I missing something and you think having a raising range is still a game theory wise solid thing to do?
thank you for the well thought out comment. I meant the BB likely has a polarized slightly 3betting range preflop, not that he has a polarized cbetting range. In fact, I think BB will likely do a fair bit of merging here. However, if I (or you) thought that BB would cbet here with a very polarized range, then yes, I agree that we should not be raising.
*I too ran this hand through Pio, and perhaps it has to do with us using different ranges or bet sizings, but my solution did in fact give the IP player a raising range. I gave OOP the option to bet either 50% (approximately what he did here), or 33%. As suspected, the smaller the OOP player bets, the more raising IP does. I believe this is because the smaller bet size results in a more merged betting range, thus allowing IP to extract value with more hands. However, Pio was raising slightly less frequently than I thought it would.
*Disclaimer: I actually gave the IP a slightly smaller raise size OTF than what I used in the video. Looking back, I think the sizing I used in the video is slightly too big. This would presumably change the results in a way similar to how the OOP cbet sizings did.
To sum things up and answer your question(s):
Yes, I am doing this as a counter to how I think a lot of people play here, but I think calling it an exploit would be unjust.
My assumption was that OOP has a somewhat polarized 3betting range preflop, but a very merged cbet range on the flop. Further, I think he's going to bet this flop at a very high frequency (correctly so, at least according to Pio).
I believe the correct counter to this is for the IP to have a raising range to extract more value with our range.
However, I do think the IP flatting his entire continuing range instead is a reasonable strategy, and one that is easier to play (because there is no book-keeping required). That being said, I think having a raising range (at a frequency slightly lower than what I initially thought, and a smaller sizing) is the, probably marginally, better strategy.
One last thing: if you find that the players in your pool tend not to cbet flop here with almost their entire range, and do polarize themselves, then the IP player almost certainly should not be raising. For better or worse, I did not want to make this assumption with no reads against a regular.
Like the video Paul, one quick question. @41:37, with 97ss what are we trying to fold out here/what are we trying to rep? I agree we have stone cold bottom of our range and having flatted from SB and checked it down, I'm not sure what we actually fold out here, would you ever check give up here?
QT+. Even though we don't bet those hands with a 100% frequency, I think we'll find ourselves underbluffing if we don't bluff 9 high here. The hands I would check here with the intention of folding are hands like 22-44, 66, 77, etc.
Nice video, good pace and you explain your thoughts really well.
18:58, left table TT. I think exploitatively river should be a check/fold. First of all he 3bets you CO vs hijak after taking only 3seconds, with a short stacked player on the button. This alone will make the chances of him 3betting hands like suited A2-A5 / K6-K8 much less likely and much more JJ+/AQ+ heavy. Given this, and how the hand plays out, I don't think he will be calling you with Ace high on the river (unless you bet extremely small), or be turning this into a river bluff. And occasionally he will have better hands than yours which go bet/check/bet. What do you think about this?
that would be a huge exploitative adjustment to make with no history (6 hands).
Even if he did tighten up, I don't think he will restrict his range so much that he only has JJ+/AQ+. Furthermore, the vast majority of hands that beat us on this river have bet the turn already. So that leaves him with a range that is A or K high and 9x heavy. Yes, he still has the occasional Jx, but those are very infrequent combos (especially depending on how he mixes up his 3b strategy pre; given your 3b assumption, he has even fewer Jx than mine).
Given this, I think he will very infrequently bet river (not many hands worse than K high, not many hands better than 9x). Since he bets river infrequently, has a relatively large bluff-catch region, and we have a range that is comparatively strong with some Ax that we can bluff, I think our highest EV option is to bet ourselves.
In order for me to make an exploitative adjustment here I need to assume at least one of the following:
Great video. I like the pace because you get to elaborate on each spot and really explain WHY you're making that play. I think having a thought process like this will really separate you from a lot of players, especially when it comes to hand reading.
Excellent video. Can you elaborate a little bit more about your colour notes? If the player limps it will tend to be a recreational player. If he's playing another table you marked him as "fun" aswell. Can you explain me this?
Great video mate. I'm hooked. watching your others....
15:30 with KQ on QQX.
Given that you're both readless on each other, does it really matter that you sometimes flat Qx and sometimes raise Qx? When you're readless, you're pretty much playing vs population (wrt reads) and won't villain interpret your raise as Qx almost always?
What are your thoughts on flatting here with QX and give him the chance to fire bluffs again or value bet worse. By raising, don't we force villain to play perfectly against us?
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Excellent video Paul, would love to see more of these as opposed to going through a hand replayer. For me personally these videos where the whole session has been put up would help my game more so I can see the more frequent spots that come up , like smaller pots which I think will help my "red line " game. I think using a hand replayer type of video will just concentrate on the bigger pots won or lost as you stated.
Thanks
Cantor,
I'm glad you agree. If I do decide to make a replayer video it will definitely not ignore smaller pots. Stealing a page out of Tyler Forrester's book, I could filter for a certain spot and go through every hand that comes up. IIRC, he recently had a terrific video filtered for 3b pots where he went through even the mundane flop x/f (which is a good thing for someone like you or me).
I think it's great that you've got a specific aspect of your game in mind that you're trying to improve. Having this kind of awareness or reflection makes the process of getting better much easier. As a precaution, just be wary of not letting your red-line affect your decisions in-game. When you review your sessions later, I encourage you to go back and look for spots where you could've made thin value bets. In my opinion, this is significantly overlooked in favour of bluffing/hero calling spots when considering NSDW. Just make sure you're not making bad hero calls/bluffs in game for the sake of your red-line. This might be something I discuss in a video later on (not quite yet though, since I'm still working on this myself).
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.
Really like your explanation , you r not skiping "standard" spots that are not standard for a lot of ppl , different style is very appreciated . I'd like to see some more of this !! no problem at all on slower pace , i think its a +++ thing
Thanks Lucas!
I think your point about what one person considers standard might be foreign to another is paramount. Identifying these discrepancies has helped me uncover fundamental flaws in my own game. It's probably my favourite thing when watching videos to find spots where really good players do the polar opposite of what I might; and then for them to call it "standard". Often times it can mean that I had/have a theoretical issue somewhere in my thought process for that hand.
Hey guys, I just want to point out that I misspoke around 6:30 when talking about the KQ hand. I meant to say that a "large SPR" is advantageous for me if I have a skill edge, not a "small SPR".
If you click square size proportionally to weight in PIO it will be visually easier to see the frequency you have certain hands at a node.
Good video some really content, only thing is which I've noticed some other coaches do is have 'standard 3 betting hands ' and always 3 bet them in the same spots, as for example the KQo 3 bet in the co from the utg open is always explained as a good hand to use for its blockers but I think should only be used to exploit a wide utg opening range. It's a small thing but really frustrates me when coaches do this, as telling players to 3 bet KQo against utg opens has to be a -EV play.
Welsh,
I agree that our decision with KQo CO vs UTG should be quite player dependent. However, I'm reluctant to agree that KQo has to be a -EV 3b against the average opponent. This is a fairly difficult thing to determine. Furthermore, it depends on what the average UTG range looks like in your player pool. I find the average reg opens ~18%, against which I think we can profit from at least sometimes 3betting KQo from the CO. If you find that this number is significantly lower for your opponents, then you should certainly just fold.
One of the better videos I've seen in a while.
I agree the slower pace and concentration on standard spots are not a detriment. Also, player reads and population reads clearly change what's 'standard.' And I agree that replayer videos can misrepresent the frequency at which certain spots come up. So more of this at 25-100nl would be welcome.
With TT hand, do you really flat as wide of a range OOP vs unknown regs MP vs CO as you put in PIO? As you said most regs would 3bet sparingly vs MP/EP, will flatting with smallest pairs (that I don't even open MP) OOP be profitable thing to do? Or did PIO came up with these ranges and I'm an idiot? ^^
Sniveller,
I do tend to do more than my fair share of flatting against 3bets, both IP and OOP. As for the small pairs, it's extremely marginal either way -- and I'm fine with just folding too. Pio did not create these ranges.
Do you have a good winrate(small loss rate) from the BB as you seem to be a lot looser than ishter/others. Do you think flatting 76o BB vs 3x CO is better than folding in the log run since you're not going to flop much equity often. K4o vs a CO in the BB seems like an easy fold, no? Maybe i'm too tight in the BB vs CO but those hands are snap folds to me in most situations.
FL,
both spots are very marginal and are reasonable folds. I haven't got a way to know for certain which hands are +EV defends. With these cuspy sort of hands, there's a few key factors that should sway my decisions heavily:
I think my WR from the BB was around -30bb/100, though I could be way off. For the majority of that sample I played quite a bit tighter from the BB though, so it's not the best indicator.
Thanks, good addition to the team.
Would like to see a replayer video where you discuss a certain topic (personally I would love to see 3bet pots as the 3bettor OOP) and like you mention go over all pots and not just the ones that get to the river
Thanks Insilicio.
I'll keep this in mind for the future. Unfortunately, I lost my entire database (for the 2nd time in 2.5 years) either right before, or right after this video. Therefore I cannot do a filtered replayer video like this quite yet.
You can request your hand histories from PokerStars support
at 24:44, where you check the TT hand in PIOsolver you talk about the solution PIO gives and about the betsizing used by villain and the optimal bet size which might be different. I just started using PIOsolver and am really curious how to find the 'optimal' bet size. Is it just a matter of trial and error or is there a more systematic approach to find out what the optimal betsize should be?
great video!
Elorean,
what I like to do is input two different bet sizings and just see which one Pio likes to use most. Often times it'll use mixed frequencies, in which case I lean towards the one used more often (and not split my range the way Pio might suggest). There may be a more sophisticated way to do this that I'm unaware of. For now however, I'm bounded by trial and error.
Hey, thanks for video, that was interesting. Do you use any popups? I would like to see hand review using replayer with 3Bet pots, defend blinds with wider range (as I saw and I think you defend wider, like K5o vs CO or 76o) how you deal postflop vs multiple barrels or tough boards. Waiting for new videos, thanks again :)
Glad you enjoyed it, Skipper!
All of those filters that you mention sound like excellent ideas. No doubt I'll refer back to them in the future when I make a replayer video. Like I mentioned in a post above, it's unfortunately just not a viable option at the moment. Currently the only purpose I have for a replayer would be to slow down the pace even more.
Great video. Really enjoyed it. Could you possibly just go over defending in the BB and rake at 50nl zoom? I like defending my BB a lot, I am just unsure as to how wide is profitable assuming I have a decent edge
Hey Z,
as I mentioned, I'm not the person to ask about rake considerations. Sorry that I cannot be of more help. If in the future I feel more qualified to answer this, I certainly will mention it in a later video or comment.
Watch cameron couch's latest video :)
QQx 15:22. Yes we have more Qx but I think your reasoning is not valid. Why would you want to raise against a polarized betting range? I reasoned that the bb has a polarized betting range because you have more Qx, and game theory speaking the polarized range should do the betting and the merged range the calling, see toy games etc. I did put everything into Pio and with the sizing you use it only like never raises flops in this spot.
So my question is this: if you are raising flop because you are exploiting a player tendency here, what are you exploiting? Do you think the player pool c-bets pairs at too high of a frequency here? Bluffs betting at too high of a frequency range wise? Or am I missing something and you think having a raising range is still a game theory wise solid thing to do?
Thnx
Insilicio,
thank you for the well thought out comment. I meant the BB likely has a polarized slightly 3betting range preflop, not that he has a polarized cbetting range. In fact, I think BB will likely do a fair bit of merging here. However, if I (or you) thought that BB would cbet here with a very polarized range, then yes, I agree that we should not be raising.
*I too ran this hand through Pio, and perhaps it has to do with us using different ranges or bet sizings, but my solution did in fact give the IP player a raising range. I gave OOP the option to bet either 50% (approximately what he did here), or 33%. As suspected, the smaller the OOP player bets, the more raising IP does. I believe this is because the smaller bet size results in a more merged betting range, thus allowing IP to extract value with more hands. However, Pio was raising slightly less frequently than I thought it would.
*Disclaimer: I actually gave the IP a slightly smaller raise size OTF than what I used in the video. Looking back, I think the sizing I used in the video is slightly too big. This would presumably change the results in a way similar to how the OOP cbet sizings did.
To sum things up and answer your question(s):
However, I do think the IP flatting his entire continuing range instead is a reasonable strategy, and one that is easier to play (because there is no book-keeping required). That being said, I think having a raising range (at a frequency slightly lower than what I initially thought, and a smaller sizing) is the, probably marginally, better strategy.
One last thing: if you find that the players in your pool tend not to cbet flop here with almost their entire range, and do polarize themselves, then the IP player almost certainly should not be raising. For better or worse, I did not want to make this assumption with no reads against a regular.
Like the video Paul, one quick question. @41:37, with 97ss what are we trying to fold out here/what are we trying to rep? I agree we have stone cold bottom of our range and having flatted from SB and checked it down, I'm not sure what we actually fold out here, would you ever check give up here?
QT+. Even though we don't bet those hands with a 100% frequency, I think we'll find ourselves underbluffing if we don't bluff 9 high here. The hands I would check here with the intention of folding are hands like 22-44, 66, 77, etc.
Great Video! Really luv your explanations. Can you do an Introduction of PIOSolver? Basic things like how to use it and when to use it.
Edit: Only got the free version
Cohen,
Steve Paul already has a video about exactly this.
http://www.runitonce.com/poker-training/videos/analyzing-hands-with-piosolver-2/
Nice video, good pace and you explain your thoughts really well.
18:58, left table TT. I think exploitatively river should be a check/fold. First of all he 3bets you CO vs hijak after taking only 3seconds, with a short stacked player on the button. This alone will make the chances of him 3betting hands like suited A2-A5 / K6-K8 much less likely and much more JJ+/AQ+ heavy. Given this, and how the hand plays out, I don't think he will be calling you with Ace high on the river (unless you bet extremely small), or be turning this into a river bluff. And occasionally he will have better hands than yours which go bet/check/bet. What do you think about this?
FF,
that would be a huge exploitative adjustment to make with no history (6 hands).
Even if he did tighten up, I don't think he will restrict his range so much that he only has JJ+/AQ+. Furthermore, the vast majority of hands that beat us on this river have bet the turn already. So that leaves him with a range that is A or K high and 9x heavy. Yes, he still has the occasional Jx, but those are very infrequent combos (especially depending on how he mixes up his 3b strategy pre; given your 3b assumption, he has even fewer Jx than mine).
Given this, I think he will very infrequently bet river (not many hands worse than K high, not many hands better than 9x). Since he bets river infrequently, has a relatively large bluff-catch region, and we have a range that is comparatively strong with some Ax that we can bluff, I think our highest EV option is to bet ourselves.
In order for me to make an exploitative adjustment here I need to assume at least one of the following:
I knda disagree with both.
Great video. I like the pace because you get to elaborate on each spot and really explain WHY you're making that play. I think having a thought process like this will really separate you from a lot of players, especially when it comes to hand reading.
Good video mate!
gl gl
@27:00 why would we not have every AJs here 100% of the time?
Pio check-raises it on the flop.
Hi Paul,
Excellent video. Can you elaborate a little bit more about your colour notes? If the player limps it will tend to be a recreational player. If he's playing another table you marked him as "fun" aswell. Can you explain me this?
Thanks!
table 2 with JJ 37:50, what do you think of turning 66 pair+OESD into turn check shove?
Great video mate. I'm hooked. watching your others....
15:30 with KQ on QQX.
Given that you're both readless on each other, does it really matter that you sometimes flat Qx and sometimes raise Qx? When you're readless, you're pretty much playing vs population (wrt reads) and won't villain interpret your raise as Qx almost always?
What are your thoughts on flatting here with QX and give him the chance to fire bluffs again or value bet worse. By raising, don't we force villain to play perfectly against us?
Really great content! I liked the two table format, it was very helpful and informative.
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