2 Table $.25/$.50 6-Max Zoom PLO Live Session #2
Posted by Tom Coldwell
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Quick question, when you flop trips on a dry-board like at 3:35, how do you typically respond to aggression (the eventual backdoor Quads luckboxing not withstanding) after a flop donk like that....I've found myself in a similar situation at times and it's hard not to get the feeling that you're inviting/inducing such action, so it kind of becomes difficult let the hand go to a flop-raise->turn-bet sort of line. Thanks.
The stronger my trips relative to the current nuts, the less likely I am to fold (obv). So a hand like AKQJ on JJ2 is one I'm never, EVER folding whereas a hand like 2345 on 4567 on 778 isn't a hand I wanna go crazy with. In the hand shown in the vid, I would not have bet three streets without hitting the J on the turn (which obv gave me a monster which I was losing a stack with unless I miracled the river) and I would probably have folded to a raise on the flop (not only is it VERY hard for me to improve, but people don't bluff many A-high boards against preflop raisers in this game).
As for villains, my default if I know nothing is to assume a raise is strong. Most low-stakes players aren't getting creative and bluffing paired boards much so we can exploit them by making some tight folds. However, obviously as we learn more about them, we may begin calling down (or even min 3-bet/snapping) to punish their over-bluffing.
Hey tom, thanks for the video as always - keep em comin
Had a cpl of Q's:
@3 mins With the JJ43 on the As4s4 board are we bet folding here on the flop? Seems like we kinda have to, maybe the only reason we could bet call is if we expected there to be a lot of flush draws in our opponents range, but I wouldn't expect most plyrs to attack this board with a chk raise with just a bare FD but I'm not exactly sure.
As for the hand @ 18:30 (the AAJ8 with hearts on Kh-Js-5h board), what do we think our opponents raising range is?
If I were to guess for most opponents it would probably be something like KK/JJ (id expect competents to just flat dry KK or dry JJ on this board tho), KJxx, pr + wrap type hands like KQT9, and maybe bare wraps with hearts like QhTx9h8x or something
Since we are planning on folding on a J turn (which reduces the combos of made hands in his range, stuff like KJxx, and now JJ is impossible), what do you think of the alternative line when we are this deep (240 bbs effective) of just chk-calling flop? Maybe we are sacrificing some value by checking, but I'd expect an aggro player to bet this flop with the the same range he'd raise flop with PLUS a lot of lower equity hands as our check on a wet board like this seems to contain a lot of chk folds, so perhaps we can just chk call down on a lot of turns and realize our equity easier. Also we have the added benefit of an aggro player likely betting hearts on the turn or river as theoretically he should have more flushes in his betting range then we should have in our chk calling range.
Thoughts?
As for the AAJ8 hand, I was and remain unsure how to play that one. I haven't done enough work on deep-stacked play to have a strong enough grasp on what to do with a hand like this. It's possible the flop should be a 3-bet, it's possible the turn should be a call, it's even possible the flop should be a check/something (although I doubt it 'cas I have his calling range in really bad shape and hold a hand that can obviously stand action so seems like a spot to lead, even more so given the board is one which hits my preflop range hard enough that I don't expect THAT many light stabs if I check).
Perhaps this is a hand I should make a thread on and see what other people think because I'm very much unsure how to continue here. I certainly think JJ and especially KK are very much in villains raising range which may also include some big combo draws (although these decrease quite markedly in frequency given my holding). I have no problem with villain raising a reasonably naked KK on the flop this deep - he gains initiative, pushes an equity edge, and with position should play later streets pretty well.
Also @48:10 the tbl on the left with KJ96 dbl suited - wouldn't this be a good spot to 3bet pre? Or would that only be preferable when facing a later position raise
1: Are you always flatting non connected Aces in SB ? and why?
Thx.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: It depends. In general, I am flatting my worst AA hands in the SB because they don't function THAT well as a 3-bet and there's a lot of value in being able to show up w/ a monster people don't expect. However, there are certainly times I will 3-bet them - a short-stack opening the BTN being one of the best examples (easy enough to just play for stacks then). Other good 3-bet spots are if a villain is spew-crazy and will 4-bet a ton (if he wants to get it in preflop wide, I'll gladly oblige), or if he plays dreadfully in 3-bet pots.
Hey Tom, great video as always, there is a ZOOM option DISPLAY FOLD AND WATCH, which I find helpful to use when taking a note, might be helpful, might not, your call, keep up the great job!
ok thx for the answer Tom ;)
Hi Tom. Interesting video.
Out of curiosity, what stakes do you usually play (I'm assuming you play higher than micro)?
Hi Tom,
21 min K643ss on 732r, do you think leading or ch/c is an option? Even vs random KK you have 42% equity. I would prefer leading since we immediatly can fold out 4 overcards which have 30+% (KQJT) equity vs us. And we have the read on the PFR that he is not betting (and probably not raising) light.
15:00 ish with the QTJ8, I think c/r turn is not that good cause against any decent opponent the Q is a blank and he shouldn't expect you to shut down. And if he does bet he has a ton of equity like what he said he had, so I'd expect people to check back a lot of mediocre flushdraw gutshots etc. And there still are like 66 bbs left on the river and half the deck is awful but I guess if we check pot monster draws and check rivers when we hit and bet blanks it's ok. Maybe against a nit we could bet fold turn? And one last thing, it's pretty silly to think you make QT fold by the river :D I think no fish on the planet bluffs the 5 really. Bet and get Q598+spades to call
As for what the river bet achieves, I very much think there are players who MIGHT fold QT here. It's not the most likely result, but it's not impossible. I said in the vid that I felt this bet would achieve different things with different people, and I expect this to be a value bet the vast majority of the time. That does not mean, however, that I don't think I will ever fold a chop. We agree that we have to jam the 5 though 'cas no one on earth is bluff-shoving into us.
Hi Tom!
I liked the video a lot i hope you will make more of this kind!
My questions:
1. You mention that deep play is not your strength so how will we learn it? :)
I thought maybe a review video with Phil would be nice where you discuss some deep stack concepts and hands with him (in the hand replayer maybe). What do you think?
2. at 1:38 you say that AQQ7:dd is 'is an amazing strong flatting hand' - does this mean that you sometimes 3bet is vs an utg opener?
1) If you are interested in learning to play deeper, I would recommend starting with Sam Lang's vids - he played almost exclusively 250bbs+ deep at the ante tables so you can find loads of great stuff in there.
2) By "amazingly strong," I meant the AQQ7 was an exceptional hand for flatting, not that it was a hand so good that we should consider 3-betting it (deep stacks, position, and the ability to hit some SUPER gin flops that we love with multiple opponents are all good qualities in a flatting hand). However, there are some villains I guess we would 3-bet here against, but those would be the rare droolers who we are simply looking for any excuse to isolate because they are giving money away in those pots. Without a SUPER strong read, this is a call 100% of the time for me. If the 7 was a T or bigger, then there would be more merit in the 3-bet imo.
Hey Tom. I noticed that you flatted from small blind two times early in the video. Once with AcJc9s9h and the second time with Ad7d8s7h (if my memory serves me right). You talked a bit about it after the second flat and said that you maybe should've clicked from sb. Does that go for both hands? I don't think I would be flatting those hands and I'm kind of curious if they were small mistakes you (unknowingly?) made while giving your introduction to the vid?
Sorry about that. Yeah it was folded around to you and then you limped. On both occasions. Thanks for the answer.
Oh, and by the way. Are you shuffling chips while you play?
Thought I heard it a couple of times in this vid. :D I used to do that as well. But when you are in a big pot and you drop a chip and you can't control your OCD-like tendencies that dictates that you need an even amount of chips it just becomes too costly. :)
Haha, that would be the way to go. :D
Bromance ITT^
OT: Nice video, I learned alot from it!
Don't worry, Ari. Tom isn't my type. Way too talkative and his British accent doesn't really do anything for me. :P
Hi Tom,
I am a new RIO customer and while I enjoyed your video I have some comments...
1. I think Zoom may be too quick for you for videos because you made numerous misclicks. Generally spots where you meant to raise or call pre but didn't. (I.e. 32 m kt87 ds, 45m50s another, a couple other spots earlier in vid which I didn't write down).
2. There a couple spots where you say "I don't know what to do here." Most notably the AAJ8 hand but also pre with akk4 at 32m, I think also aa68 pre 44m. This is natural and fine in poker but I encourage you as a RIO coach (not sure if correct term) to make a thread with these spots after posting video and maybe the ballers can give us some insight.
Thanks.
Slinky
Hi, Tom, very nice video. May I know your winrate prerakeback at PLO50 and PLO25? Thanks!
Hello
I got a question open 84ss65hh is a mistake UTG¿
Thanks
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